Going to buy 500 rounds of .223 for range use mostly punching paper, training ect. Not for defence uses. Trying to decide between reloaded bass case from AmmoValley or Wolf Polyformance. Both are within a few dollars in cost and have their own postitives and negatives. So reloaded brass or new steel case bi metal, thoughts?

Neither. I just do not trust someone else's reloads and I have never liked bimetal steel cased ammo.

For just $165.50, you can get 500 IMI M193 on SGAmmo right now.

If you reload it- fine. Someone else's reloads- NO GO
Steel? Some is better than others. Brown Bear has been good enough. Wolf some good, some groups like a shotgun.
Try a few and see what if any your barrel likes. None will be match quality, and may require a good cleaning. I clean after every range day anyway. Even the "poor" ammo was ~ minute of pie plate inside 100 yards.

Magtech is a good price at SGAmmo right now. Wolf Gold is a fine stand by but seems to be unavailable. Both are brass.
The BB is available as well and priced well, but is steel cased.

Either your own reloads or factory ammo. A few places are having some decent sales with rebates.

I won't shoot reloads unless they're mine.

Steel cased is good to go. Not great for precision but good enough for training, 3 gun, etc.

Right now brown bear is 209+shipping per k at sgammo.

I just bought some copper jacketed wolf steel cased from them for a little more.

Yeah im iffy on the reloads for sure and just thought I would see what AR15.com had to say. I habe bought .40SW reloads and new ammo from AmmoValley and what litlle I have tested so far in my G23 has had no issues and is clean brass and clean shooting. However Im much more picky on what my ARs eat, I domt like to run steel case bi metal in them and like I said Im iffy on the reloads. I will keep looking at cheap quality ammo like Wolf Gold, BB and PMC.

You can also get a case of 1000 wolf .223 steel ammo right now on targetsportsusa.com for $224 shipped or $207 shipped if you are part of their prime ammo club. Just one example. Take that savings per case of 1k rounds and just buy a new barrel once yours is done. The last 3 cases of wolf steel .223 I got from targetsportusa.com on a weekend sale + their prime ammo club was $180 shipped per case of 1k. By the time you shoot out that barrel, you will probably save about $400 at the minimum, plenty of money to buy another quality barrel; barrels are wear items IMO, just like tires on a car. I'd guesstimate I've shot probably north of 30k rounds of steel .223 wolf, tulammo, herters (which is made by tulammo) and while its definitely not the best, its damn cheap for plinking/training if you actually like to shoot a lot. Past 100-200 yards accuracy is meh, but I never have trouble smacking 6 inch plates/swingers @ 100 yards even with just iron sights, as long as I'm doing my part/good fundamentals. And as far as stuck cases, yes I've had it happen to me, but in all that ammo its only happened 2 times, in only 1 particular build, and that was within the first 50 rounds of break-in; no issues after. I only clean every 1000-1500 rounds, if your gun can't function on steel and dirty I'd question owning it.

My brass ammo is either match ammo for groups or buy it cheap/stack it deep

I second though I don't trust someone else's reloads

You read about it eh?

From my honest experience... between those 2 choices, unless you are going with top of the line reloads/companies, definitely go with the steel case ammo.

However, I do NOT recommend Tulammo.

Tulammo recently made their ammo pretty 'hot', and with the inherent problem with the steel case not sealing the chamber as well as brass, it caused multiple failures in my rifle. It even caused a minor kaboom(case rapture) in my Argentine FAL.
Wolf ammo and Bear ammo ran 100% with no problem.

I've run 2k rounds of Wolf Polyformance without a single stuck case, and I've found accuracy to be good enough to make a steel plate go DING every time at 100yrds. I've also run some Freedom Munitions reloads without issue, but every time I've ordered from them it's taken about a month to receive the goods. Coupled with the horror stories I've heard, I think I'll stick with my steel case for general plinking.

The steel case ammo would be Wolf, I dont like steel case too much but would never use Tula. I have run Wolf and it works well enough. Maybe I should just get over my bi metal wears barrels faster. This ammo will mostly be shot from my PSA Freedom barrel so I could just replace it with a Faxon when it wears out.

I'd go Wolf.  Its currently made by Barnaul, which is pretty much the best of the steel case ammo (maker of the 'Bear series) - I've found Wolf steel surprisingly accurate in both 223 and 308.  Reloads (Freedom, LAX, et al) are not a good idea for a rifle round IMHO, as unknown case condition can lead to catastrophic failures.  That being said, I don't hesitate to buy and shoot reloads for my pistols (45ACP), as the pressures are low and the cases are pretty much indestructible.

I trust a few reload companies, but it's been years since I bought any.

Remember that you can always sell your fired brass cases to recoup some money. That means you can shoot new brass cased ammo for the same cost as steel cased.

Excuse my . I apologize if I came off snarky and/or a bit of an ass. I assumed you had only read about it and were spreading the gospel of brass only, which I see all the time online from people that have never actually shot it and definitely a lot of the time at the range; I talk to people often that either have this "holier than thou" attitude because they shoot brass only, have never actually used steel ammo, and many usually bring up that luckygunner article of brass vs steel. I don't think I'm any better or anything that brass only users, but the amount of snobbery I see is just . I agree that accuracy is lacking to a certain extent, but its good enough for whacking steel 100 yard in and when you are running drills and what not the variation in accuracy is negligible; your breathing caused by exertion, like running to the next barrier, faster heartbeat/breathing control, trigger control, unsupported awkward positions, and fatigue (etc) are likely to affect your accuracy more than the ammo. Specifically for punching paper and shooting longer ranges, I completely agree, accuracy is sub-par, but I only use brass for those applications. I will concede that I know you are right about many people chasing accuracy with sub-par ammo if we are talking about non-high energy exertion shooting at paper just sitting/standing/off hand.

And for prime ammo, I joined up this year, its $95 up front annually, prices get discounted on top of their sale/clearance prices, and so far it has paid for itself.
Savings are generally speaking ~8-10% per case of ammo, and free shipping on every order big or small, 1 box or 10 cases. Wolf gold runs about $266 a case shipped, a lot of decent brass 9mm fmj loads are $174-$183 a case shipped, etc. I split the cost of membership with a friend and we just share my account. The only better deals I see generally speaking are jumping though hoops, Cabelas + discount gift cards + active junky + sales/free ship coupons + club member discounts.

ETA: If there is something you want to see a specific prime club price for, PM me and I can check for you if you aren't sure you want to take the plunge. After a few cases though it will pay for itself if you factor in shipping prices and just general cost of ammo. Last 4 cases I got of federal XM193 came out to $243 per case shipped after factoring in the rebate

For practice ammunition, Wolf’s Polyformance ammunition should be fine.  As noted above, it’s currently made by Barnaul, and they have a well earned reputation for making quality ammunition.  I’ve run I don’t know how many rounds of Barnaul-made ammo through a number of guns, and it’s always been reliable and relatively accurate.

Steel cases do have a problem with the tight tolerances in an AR, so it’s important to keep your chamber clean.  I’m no longer convinced that dirty chambers come from poorly sealed chambers as much as pretty dirty Russian powders.  Either way, gunk builds up in the chamber and needs to be cleaned out regularly.

I don’t worry too much about bimetal bullets damaging or wearing my barrels, either.  There’s a slight possibility that poorly made bimetal bullets may be harder than they need to be, but quality bullets like those Barnaul uses will have their jackets about as soft as gilding metal (traditional US-type jacket metal) so it’s unlikely to be a problem with Barnaul’s ammunition.

Steel cased are hard on extractors and bimetal wears out a barrel a whole lot faster. I have a cheap beater just for using steel cased or for classes as I will be exhausted afterwards and I really do not want to be chasing my brass or worrying about who will be taking mine. Besides, for 100 yards and less it doesn't really matter for the accuracy department.

This subject always brings out the emotional and the angered because someone has an opinion that conflicts with their own. This is entirely subjective.

I prefer to use brass cased. I can get a much better round making my own. That matters to me. And I really do not care that it doesn't to somebody else. And besides, using non bimetal is way better on your AR500.

To piggy back on GSL’s points, what’s more important than my opinion, or just about everyone else’s opinions, is how YOU, feel about the ammunition you shoot.

The price difference between Wolf Gold (brass cased, Boxer primed and made in Taiwan’s state factories to high standards) and Wolf Polyformance is not so big that it’ll break the bank to buy and shoot only brass ammo.  If I didn’t have a modest stash of Barnaul’s stuff, I don’t think I’d think twice about stocking up on Wolf Gold.

I should also touch on the other half of this question.  

There is “reloaded” ammunition, and there is “remanufactured” ammunition.  Black Hills remanufactures ammunition, as well as manufacturing totally new ammunition.  Clearly, Black Hills Ammunition is a large firm and has a lot to lose from poor quality assurance with their products.  They are not “Bubba with a Dillon 650 in his garage.”

A licensed manufacturer of ammunition could be huge, or as small as Bubba.  The key to whether or not their products are worth your time is how well those products are made, and how consistently they’re made to those standards.  “Great deals” from unknown companies are not great deals, and while I would trust Black Hills ammunition no matter what, there aren’t a lot of remanufacturers that I would trust that far.

YMMV, but I don’t buy other people’s reloads, and I won’t buy reman from a company I’ve never heard of.

When Russian ammo was about $100 cheaper per case, it made sense to use in a blaster rifle.  Now, with Federal's rebate, there's only about a $50 difference.

I've had good results from the Wolf Polyformance.
I've gone through a few k of it.
I will not shoot any bimetal through my more premium rifles though, such is my stainless barreled precision SPRs, or my 3gun rifle.

But through all the others, I have no issue with doing so.
Barrel wear will happen with any ammo, I just don't want to accelerate it on those few mentioned.

Ok I ordered a 420 round can of Federal XM193 from PSA. It was the best buy for my budget. $149.99 free shipping and after the rebate Federal has right now its $128.99. I feel much better running brass in my rifles that steel and going with XM193 does not limit me at ranges that dont allow magnetic bullets, so overall it was a better choice than my original 2. Get the deals now while you can, we may see another Sandy Hook supply issue again but I hope not.
Best prices i found on brass .223 and 5.56 are:
PSA: Federal XM855 or XM193 420rnds $128.99 shipped after rebate. PCM Bronze or Xtac XM193 $6.99 per 20rnd box has free shipping deals a lot.
SGAmmo: IMI XM193 500/1000rnds $165.50/309.50 plus shipping, XM855 500/1000 $174.75/329.50 plus shipping, Wolf Polyformance 62g HP or Brown Bear 55g 500/100 $109.95/209.90 plus shipping, Golden Tiger 56g 1000rnds $219.50.

When it comes to steel. I only reach for Barnaul or Wolf.   I used to run Tula in my Saiga SGL21-61(sold this summer), and had more than one case of blown primers or slight kabooms at the rim.  My Sig M400 loves the Silver Bear and Wolf Polyformance and Gold.  

A couple of weeks ago, local shop was selling Fiocchi 55gr for $12.99/50, so I bought a 500 round case, and it went straight into an ammo can.

The only remanufactured brands I've shot are HSM and Bite The Bullet.  HSM is local to me, and have a tight QC process.

Everyone is a victim of their own frame of reference. Personally Ive had less problems with steel cased ammo than with any of the Federal XM brands. As for accuracy I dont care for tiny groups. Most of my shooting is done under 100 yards, with a RDS off-hand or in weird positions. Steel cased is plenty accurate for that.

Extremely well said.

And I want everyone to be very proud of me.  I have held my inner editor at bay and not blurted out that the word “steal” in the thread title gets my attention - in a negative way - every time I see it.  I will, though, ask the OP to fix that when he gets around to it.  Don’t steal ammo...it’s bad form.

Very well said.

Whenever I see a grammar mistake in Tech, I hold my tongue for the most. I don't want to bring GD in here.

...although seeing intentionally spelled middy, winny, dissy, remmy, mossy, shotty, etc., does get my blood going a tad

I've stopped or don't even respond to those threads anymore once I see it. Better to not say anything anymore than correcting those that are easily offended.

Sorry for my poor grammer and spelling. Part of it is me and part of it I will blame on my tablet key board, I should proof read better though. Im a mechanic and gun nut not an English professor lol, just be light so dont take any offense. Edited posts.
Thanks for all the responses, experiences and opinions. I will stay away from reloads in my AR rifles and I will see how the 250 rounds of .40SW works in the G23. As for steel case bi metal ammo, I will stay with brass as long as prices and supply permit. PMC and XM193 is cheap, accurate enough for what I use it for and it works in all my rifles.

Sounds good.

And I wasn’t picking at your grammar, just mentioning the spelling issue.  Tablets’ autocorrects often choose poorly, sometimes hilariously so.

It really was my experience as a tech writer and editor that bubbled up.  To be honest, having been a tech writer, technical training instructor and instructor supervisor made college pretty challenging for me.  I could not help but critique my teachers’ handouts, slides and teaching techniques - and college professors and TAs are often woefully bad at actual teaching.  So I mentioned the misspelled word only as a humorous note, not a dig at you.

Use to roll my own 556 ammo, back when pull down powder and pulled fmj's were dirt cheap. With the cost of components now, I can't see the time involved ( I HATE trimming brass, LOL!).

Only reloads I ever bought was at the local gunshow, big outfit out of DFW . Went to load mags and noticed loose powder in the bottom of the bag, then found several primers loose in the bag. Not confidence inspiring so took em back at the next show and got a refund.

Most of our shooting is close range (25 yds) we have our own small range with a " kill room" for clearing exercises so steel case is good enough for that. Wolf, Tula, Golden Tiger all works okay, Tula seems pretty weak ( won't reliably cycle our STG556) .

For 100 & 200 yd with a 20" scoped upper shooting I prefer better stuff.

Also like steel case because I don't feel guilty not policing the brass, when it gets to be a tripping hazard we just rake it off to the side

I've had some bad experiences w/ commercial reloads but in all fairness they were likely a different brand and were handgun ammo

I've been shooting nothing but steel for years now.
Issues are very rare and cannot discern a difference to brass ammo (because both have near perfect records)

ARs I use most often are Sig516, Troy, LWRC and the occasional frankengun.

All ammo has been getting cheaper so IMO the case for steel has been weakend a bit for this reason.. but its what I have stashed.

Real happy with the accuracy of all Barnaul produced 62 gr BTW whether in FMJ or HP.

Brown bear, Silver bear, Wolf Military Classic, Colt Zinc (these are on made on same production line) all in 62 gr, no issues over the course of almost 30,000 rds.
In my experience the 62gr of the russian ammo tend to be a bit better QC'ed or loaded ever so slightly hotter. Dont remember having had short cycling issues with them either.

Only time i ever had issues was w/ Tula 55gr, both hard primers (llight primer strikes) and short cycling.
In all fairness I also get short cycling in same guns from PMC Bronze.

Its not the 62gr, its the Barnul plant that makes excellent steel cased ammo. The Tula plant has horrible QC.

Yeah, Tula is like taking the blind roll of the dice.

No thanks.

(Please do not respond if you're an outraged Tula fan, this has already been done before and my mind will not change. Thanks)

It seems to me the russian 62gr seems loaded hotter (and I use the term loosely) than russian 55 gr and i have never had any issues w/ any russian 62gr.
(Which is now most of what I fire now, except the Hard primer golden tiger steel)

Yes Barnaul is better than Tula.

but I had  a batch of tula 62 gr before and seemed to have less (or even none .. not sure its been a while) issues.

I also like to know my rifle will function on cheqp steel case ammo, just in case.
When Im collecting my brass at a known local desert shooting area I nearly always find a few Tula rounds with primer strikes that did not fire or are damaged from a jam or ftf ect.

I completely agree on the "brass v. steel" aspect.  And I've managed to not spout off enough to spoil that, so I'm proud of me!  

I have an MP5 clone inbound, so I'm probably going to be stocking up on the nice, Barnaul-made 9mm stuff that Academy Sports sells for wringing it out.  (I'm also working on the shopping list to build a bajillion rounds of 9mm with my progressive press, but that's for once I get the gun and make sure it runs on the Russian ammo.

I wonder how bad or not the chamber would ruin the brass considering the 5.56 and .308 big brothers totally destroy them.

And recently I just discovered that there is such a thing as having too much brass because it's a vicious cycle.

It's even more entertaining if you are there while someone is shooting that Wolf.  My personal favorite is "..damnit, but my gun never jams", while yanking the charging handle trying to get that stuck shell out.

Excellent choice, that should serve you well.   Well... mostly, I'm not a big fan of Federal .223 ammo as a general rule, but compared to steel or random reloads, and if you're looking for economy brass - that's the way to go.

I'm willing to bet good money that this happens more than people are letting on just on this board even, with both handguns and rifles. It's why I don't believe anyone when they write that their precious so an so has never stopped going bang and it eats everything. I'm even willing to bet good money that the ones who've made the most noise about are the ones that it's happened to.

I've shot thousands of rounds of Wolf Poly and Tula without issue, but recently I've been running Brown Bear and Barnaul Mil-Spec which is unfortunately sold out at SGAmmo at the moment. Great stuff, accurate, lacquer coated and sealed, and unlike the poly coated garbage its hotter as well. I've had 2 failures to go into battery but no stuck casings, its now my go to range ammo while I stockpile my Wolf Gold.

I used to use reloads until I tried Freedom Munitions

I’ve collected range brass from .308 that was noticeably marked but not “destroyed.”  9mm cases are pretty much the same - you can tell they’ve been fired in a fluted chamber, but the few that I could tell were clearly fired more than once in fluted chambers were not destroyed.

Still, I expect to wind up scrapping cases whenever there might be some doubt...