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Posted: 8/18/2010 4:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Eric802]
[#1]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By AZ-AR15:
Has ballistic gelatin tests ever been done on Wolf type ammo? I'm pretty sure I can recall seeing such a test done with a steel-jacketed 55gr round like Wolf, and all that happened was that the bullet flattened out some and some lead was squeezed out the back. I'll find the pics if I can. Psst... Try the Ammo FAQ! 
Yeeeeahhhh...you'd think so, but that link appears to be FUBAR. I found the no-pics version of the report by changing some of the numbers in a URL for one of the links that does work. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest2/Test2.htm |
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Posted: 8/18/2010 4:34:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#2]
Originally Posted By Eric802: Yeeeeahhhh...you'd think so, but that link appears to be FUBAR. Again?  I just tried to fix it a week ago. The file is there; I don't know why the server insists that it isn't. [ETA] I just checked, and the two files which keep giving me problems are visible. To me at least. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2010 8:33:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Really who buys wolf ammo for accucry. I buy it because it cheap.
Great right up. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2010 11:04:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Do you have any research experience? I really appreciate your no BS approach with this eval.
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Posted: 9/26/2010 8:55:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Do you have any research experience? Negative Ghost Rider. |
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Posted: 9/26/2010 9:00:02 PM EDT
[#6]
some chronograph data . . .
Fired from a 20" Colt barrel with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and a 1:7" twist, the 55 grain black box Wolf Performance Ammunition had a muzzle velocity of 3031 fps with a standard deviation of 47 fps. For comparison, Wolf's 55 grain "Military Classic" load had a muzzle velocity of 3009 fps with a standard deviation of 34 fps. American Eagle 55 grain XM193 from the same barrel had a muzzle velocity of 3272 fps with a standard deviation of 17 fps. |
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Posted: 9/26/2010 9:37:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GHPorter]
[#7]
Originally Posted By Molon:
Maybe not formal research experience. Your scientific approach is a model of "how to do it right."
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Do you have any research experience? Negative Ghost Rider. Edited to fix stupid tag that I did wrong quite some time ago... |
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Posted: 10/3/2010 12:10:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By AZ-AR15:
Has ballistic gelatin tests ever been done on Wolf type ammo? I'm pretty sure I can recall seeing such a test done with a steel-jacketed 55gr round like Wolf, and all that happened was that the bullet flattened out some and some lead was squeezed out the back. I'll find the pics if I can. Psst... Try the Ammo FAQ!
Yeeeeahhhh...you'd think so, but that link appears to be FUBAR. I found the no-pics version of the report by changing some of the numbers in a URL for one of the links that does work. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest2/Test2.htm The pertinent sentence from that report: “2. The round exhibited almost no fragmentation.” |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/13/2010 8:59:21 PM EDT
[#9]
wow thanks so much for this review. I've been debating buy some cheap ammunition as I've been burning through my very small stockpile of Federal and don't want to touch what LC I have.... On a side note, where you at a state run (DNR?) range? If so they must all be built on the same format or you're in MI at a place I try to go to every once an a while
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/14/2010 4:46:53 PM EDT
[#10]
These are the kind of posts I love to read. It's nice when someone cuts through the b.s. once in a while.
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ND, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2010 2:21:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By AZ-AR15:
Has ballistic gelatin tests ever been done on Wolf type ammo? I'm pretty sure I can recall seeing such a test done with a steel-jacketed 55gr round like Wolf, and all that happened was that the bullet flattened out some and some lead was squeezed out the back. I'll find the pics if I can. Psst... Try the Ammo FAQ!
Yeeeeahhhh...you'd think so, but that link appears to be FUBAR. I found the no-pics version of the report by changing some of the numbers in a URL for one of the links that does work. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest2/Test2.htm The pertinent sentence from that report: “2. The round exhibited almost no fragmentation.” I wonder why? |
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Posted: 10/23/2010 5:59:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By D348:
My guess is that the jacket was too thick, too soft, or both. The report notes fairly low velocity for the test round too, which would also reduce the energy in the bullet and thus its ability to fragment.
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By AZ-AR15:
Has ballistic gelatin tests ever been done on Wolf type ammo? I'm pretty sure I can recall seeing such a test done with a steel-jacketed 55gr round like Wolf, and all that happened was that the bullet flattened out some and some lead was squeezed out the back. I'll find the pics if I can. Psst... Try the Ammo FAQ!
Yeeeeahhhh...you'd think so, but that link appears to be FUBAR. I found the no-pics version of the report by changing some of the numbers in a URL for one of the links that does work. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest2/Test2.htm The pertinent sentence from that report: “2. The round exhibited almost no fragmentation.” I wonder why? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2010 7:35:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Wolf is good for plinking or short ranges. That's what I get but does it feed consistently?
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Posted: 10/24/2010 5:08:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
Wolf is good for plinking or short ranges. That's what I get but does it feed consistently? While I've had a lot of problems with Wolf, none of them have ever been feeding problems. |
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Posted: 11/6/2010 11:17:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By ohio11b20:
excellent read id like to see the same with silver and brown bear if you can. So would I. As well as the HP versions of wolf ammo. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2010 1:27:02 AM EDT
[#16]
In regards to the old lacquer stuff (2004 or so), I have about 700 rounds of it left... the newer polymer stuff (wherever it is manufactured) appears to be more accurate. I'm just saying, if you didn't test it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
The old stuff I use for teaching new shooters technique... Can't wait until it's not taking up space. I'm no ammo snob either... |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2010 12:06:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Molon, great write up and thanks for your time. Did you have any issue with feeding or ejection during the test? As far as I'm concerned, Wolf ammo is accurate enough for what I will use it for, range and home defense. I'm not worried about shooting 1 inch groups at 100 yards. My biggest concern for the Russian ammo is whether or not it is consistently loading and ejecting. Thanks again.
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Posted: 11/7/2010 12:52:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
Did you have any issue with feeding or ejection during the test? Originally posted by Molon:
Black Box Wolf 75 grain HP (lot A) At one point during firing, I experienced a stoppage. Locking the bolt back to examine the chamber area, I discovered a fired case stuck in the chamber and observed that the extractor had torn throuh the case head. The case had to be tapped out of the chamber using a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle. This is the only time that I have ever had a case stick in the chamber of any of my AR-15s.  |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2010 1:53:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for the write up Molon.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2010 6:51:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally posted by Molon:
Black Box Wolf 75 grain HP (lot A) At one point during firing, I experienced a stoppage. Locking the bolt back to examine the chamber area, I discovered a fired case stuck in the chamber and observed that the extractor had torn throuh the case head. The case had to be tapped out of the chamber using a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle. This is the only time that I have ever had a case stick in the chamber of any of my AR-15s. *******Thanks again.. |
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Posted: 11/27/2010 6:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#21]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Maybe not formal research experience. Your scientific approach is a model of "how to do it right."
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Do you have any research experience? Negative Ghost Rider. Edited to fix stupid tag that I did wrong quite some time ago... Star Gate Fan? |
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:12:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By Molon:
Not too much. I've just been "scientific" about most things I've done, and it's good to see someone else take the pains to do similarly.
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Maybe not formal research experience. Your scientific approach is a model of "how to do it right."
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Do you have any research experience? Negative Ghost Rider. Edited to fix stupid tag that I did wrong quite some time ago... Star Gate Fan? |
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Posted: 11/27/2010 9:39:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#23]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Not too much. I've just been "scientific" about most things I've done, and it's good to see someone else take the pains to do similarly.
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Maybe not formal research experience. Your scientific approach is a model of "how to do it right."
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Do you have any research experience? Negative Ghost Rider. Edited to fix stupid tag that I did wrong quite some time ago... Star Gate Fan? I just meant that I thought I remembered your tag line originally being quoted from "Ra". Or maybe I just picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue. 
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Posted: 11/28/2010 12:33:28 AM EDT
[#24]
I am very glad that I stumbled across this thread.
I would never use Wolf for anything other then live fire ACT. To use it as a work bullet is not a good idea if you value yur life. I just can't afford to shoot quality stuff all day. |
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Posted: 11/28/2010 9:30:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By Molon:
Any similarity between almost anything I post/say and anything else, anywhere, is purely coincidental. I hope you didn't stop drinking too. Or smoking. Or... But don't call me Shirley. I just meant that I thought I remembered your tag line originally being quoted from "Ra". Or maybe I just picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2010 12:30:43 AM EDT
[#26]
If u wanna go the cheap route of shooting and still hold some pretty good groups then i suggest 55gr fmjbt by pmc or fiochi...both proved accurate from my dpms 16" 1:9 and 26" 1:12 bolt rifle
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Posted: 11/29/2010 10:11:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By Jay61cal:
If u wanna go the cheap route of shooting and still hold some pretty good groups then i suggest 55gr fmjbt by pmc or fiochi...both proved accurate from my dpms 16" 1:9 and 26" 1:12 bolt rifle Define "accurate." |
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Posted: 11/29/2010 10:51:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#28]
<Inappropriate comment removed - Z>
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Posted: 11/29/2010 11:35:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#29]
<Inappropriate comment removed - Z>
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Posted: 11/29/2010 11:53:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#30]
<Inappropriate comment removed - Z>
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Posted: 11/30/2010 9:10:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#31]
<Inappropriate comment removed - Z>
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Posted: 11/30/2010 11:16:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#32]
<Inappropriate comment removed - Z>
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Posted: 11/30/2010 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
the definition can be anything, but I think most use 1 MOA as the common mark for accuracy. . . . and I seriously doubt that the above poster was getting consistent 1 MOA accuracy with 55 grain FMJ ammuntion. |
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Posted: 11/30/2010 3:04:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
the definition can be anything, but I think most use 1 MOA as the common mark for accuracy. . . . and I seriously doubt that the above poster was getting consistent 1 MOA accuracy with 55 grain FMJ ammuntion. Maybe instead of calling it the "Texas Sharpshooter" it should be the "California Sharpshooter"?
When denoting accuracy we should also be stating group count as well as the size (i.e. 10 shot 1 moa group). |
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Posted: 11/30/2010 4:45:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#35]
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
the definition can be anything, but I think most use 1 MOA as the common mark for accuracy. . . . and I seriously doubt that the above poster was getting consistent 1 MOA accuracy with 55 grain FMJ ammuntion. Maybe instead of calling it the "Texas Sharpshooter" it should be the "California Sharpshooter"?
When denoting accuracy we should also be stating group count as well as the size (i.e. 10 shot 1 moa group). There oughta be a law . . . 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2010 11:17:52 PM EDT
[#36]
OK, this may be a wayyyy stupid question, but here I go anyway. Molon, since the 75's tri layered jacket is so tough, how would this be as a barrier round, for an inexpensive route? OK, go ahead, flame away!!!!! 9080, bunkered out.
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Posted: 12/19/2010 8:34:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Fireman9080:
OK, this may be a wayyyy stupid question, but here I go anyway. Molon, since the 75's tri layered jacket is so tough, how would this be as a barrier round, for an inexpensive route? OK, go ahead, flame away!!!!! 9080, bunkered out. Certainly a valid question, unfortunately, I haven't seen any credible barrier testing of the 75 grain Wolf load. With excellent bonded soft-points now readily available, I doubt we'll be seeing such testing of the Wolf load. |
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Posted: 1/16/2011 2:52:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By 99merckx:
These are the kind of posts I love to read. It's nice when someone cuts through the b.s. once in a while. You might enjoy the following thread . . . BS Busters 001 |
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Posted: 3/9/2011 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Molon
If you want to add this here are some velocities.... Conditions 48F 35% humidity 3mph winds 16" Barrel w/ carbine gas system 15'ft muzzle Wolf 55gr FMJ (Black Box) Low: 2816 High: 2969 Average: 2881 Ex. Spr.: 152.6 SD: 50.41 1: 2866 2: 2816 3: 2847 4: 2906 5: 2871 6: 2903 7: 2947 8: 2855 9: 2826 10: 2969 |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2011 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Molon, have you ever considered performing an accuracy review of ATI SS109? This is a fairly cheap ammo, and although there have been some fairly conclusive reviews performed on it, none that I have seen are close to as thorough as your tests. ATI also claims sub-MOA accuracy, and includes a copy of your lot's 90rd quality control accuracy test, in your case of ammo, but I'd really like to see you do an objective review on it.
Thank you for your contributions here. You've given me and countless others a great deal of valuable information. |
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Posted: 3/20/2011 12:59:45 AM EDT
[#41]
amazing, I couldn't even get wolf to fire in my Colt AR.
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Posted: 3/20/2011 6:50:20 PM EDT
[#42]
I had the same issue Molon did, except I was shooting Wolf Black Box 62g HP. Shot a couple of mags, and then realized my rifle wasn't firing. Long story short, the extractor had sheared off a piece of the rim. Pissed me off because I didn't have a cleaning rod with me. Haven't bought Wolf since.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2011 2:11:42 AM EDT
[#43]
I just re-confirmed my zero on my Bushmaster AR with wolf 55gr because thats what I normally use as plinking ammo. I used a TA31 ACOG and a sand sock and shot 1.5 in groups at 100m after letting a few shots go to warm my barrel. I've never had a problem with Wolf, my AR eats that stuff up. I'm not also that worried about accuracy through my carbine, as Its roll is CQB.
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Posted: 3/30/2011 10:54:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Will]
[#44]
What I take away from this is that most Wolf is essentially 4 moa ammo. Fine.
But look at the test of the much loved Winchester Q31 that was done by Molon. It's 3 MOA ammo. Take a look at the Privi M193, it was 3.75" Are we REALLY that "gay" about .25- 1 MOA? Numbers of angels dancing on pinheads debate for tomorrow guys? I'm sure I can count on you all to give a shit to the extreme. Maybe people should shoot their rifles a little more and spend less time on the keyboard talking minutae bullshit with little relevance under real world shooting conditions. And no, I don't shoot alot of Wolf, I have shot some and it worked good in my Sig 556, not terribly accurate but it ran fine. I really can't believe people are going to get worked up and all hot and bothered by an inch or less in possible accuracy. We aren't shooting benchrest rifles. Now, when you get to 2", which some of the better M193's or 855's and certainly the specialty ammo's will usually do, then fine- it's worth pursuing. But really, you're going to get goofy and argue about less than an inch? Not worth it. |
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Posted: 3/30/2011 7:07:44 PM EDT
[#45]
true about the accuracy, but Wolf is not a defensive round due to the overly thick jacket, whereas Q31and Prvi are
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Posted: 3/30/2011 10:24:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Will]
[#46]
true about the accuracy, but Wolf is not a defensive round due to the overly thick jacket, whereas Q31and Prvi are
I shoot maybe 15,000 rounds a year of different types, sometimes more, rarely less.I've done that for going on 15 years now. I haven't shot anyone yet but killed a shitload of paper......how important REALLY is the difference? Should you have several cases of defensive ammo, YOU BETCHA, I'm a firm believer in the idea that the wheels are coming off this wagon.....but for practice ammo, I see no harm in saving a couple bucks. Again, I don't shoot alot of wolf, I mostly shoot reloads as I get the brass for free but I think sometimes we get a little too interested in the forest and miss the trees! It's a good idea to reexamine things from time to time and think about why you do something in a particular way etc...maybe you end up validating what you are doing, maybe you progress...... |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2011 2:14:48 AM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By turp_dog:
I had the same issue Molon did, except I was shooting Wolf Black Box 62g HP. Shot a couple of mags, and then realized my rifle wasn't firing. Long story short, the extractor had sheared off a piece of the rim. Pissed me off because I didn't have a cleaning rod with me. Haven't bought Wolf since. Same ammo, same problem twice, had a rod for the second but the first smacked out with the buttbash trick. PITA. I might continue to use Wolf, but not in a professional environment. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/5/2011 1:07:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Is Silver Bear 55Gn generally more accurate or less accurate than Wolf/WPA 55Gn?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/7/2011 11:55:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Thank you so much for the datailed report.
I was getting pretty similar results from Wolf, but was thinking maybe it was either my trigger finger or my AR that's junky. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2011 10:14:23 AM EDT
[#50]
To update my occasional comments regarding Wolf and the FNH FS2000 Bullpup I will revisit in case others have one and have not read about it.
The older ULY made Wolf polymer shoots fine in the FS2000. My brass cased reloads shoot 100% as well using Wolf SRM primers. But the new Wolf WPA, (Barnual made) both Military Classic and black box do not fire. They make a strike but nothing happens. This is the only ammo I have had a problem with in the FS2000. I can move these seeming duds to my PWS MK114 and they go off. Now that we are caught up here is my update. I contacted FNH USA as I had read the FS2000 had a light strike and FNH had a fix for guns sold before this became known and of course modified all guns from that point. It turns out my gun had been built WITH the fix in place so unless it has a personal problem it does not need an update. FNH did state they do not recommend steel cased ammo and suggested I consider how brass ammunition performs as a bench mark. The FS2K is splendid with all brass ammo and while I mostly shoot brass cased reloads in all my weapons I do test every gun for every possibility hence the Wolf test. So, for the few FS2000 owners, that is the latest Wulfmann |
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