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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:28:59 PM EDT
I am new to the AR world and currently building my first AR My question is out of a 1/9 twist RRA upper is there that much difference in Accuracy between the Blackhills VS XM855PD ammo. Most of what I am going to be doing is Rifle drills to prepare for Iraq in a few months. The Air Force doesn't give us much trigger time so I am going to do it on my own. Any opinions welcome.

Scott
Vandenberg AFB
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 8:03:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 8:05:04 PM EDT by thompsondd]
Scott,

First off, let me say thank you for your service and good luck in Iraq.

MUCH has been written about both Black Hills and XMnnnPD here on the site.

To summarize, Black Hills is generally top notch ammo, even the reloads.

The PD stuff seems to split the camp. Some people here have used it and reported no problems, other people such as myself don't trust it as far as it could be thrown. I don't like it because of bent bullets, neck set back, etc. Too many poor quality issues and other varibles to trust my life and safety too, but that is just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 8:45:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 8:46:46 PM EDT by snedigity]
Thank you, for your comment about my serice. The primary use of this ammo is practice. Butt accuracy means a lot to me to. What would you suggest for when the SHTF type situation? BlackHills? I will be putting my life on the lin with M855 ammo. Kinda confuse why Blackhills would be better.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:21:54 PM EDT
Black Hills really is top notch ammo, but I'm a little confused by what you mean. Black Hills makes a large variety of different loads, having many different uses.

If you are just asking about the typical quality of any Black Hills vs any XM-855, I would tell you that the Black Hills is some of the best made - regardless of whether you are shooting 50 grain varmint killers or 68 grain match rounds. As for XM-855, my experinece differs from Thompsondd's, in that I've never had any problems with it. I remember being issued some really scary looking M-855 when I was in Bosnia with the Army. Bullets set back so far that powder was leaking out, brass that was severely dented or even folded back on itself, and other issues. I haven't seen any of this with the XM-855 I have picked up. The worst I have seen is alot more green paint than what is really needed.

I would recommend you look at them both in smaller amounts, and try them out. See which you like most, and which your rifle shoots best and go from there.



-K

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:27:53 PM EDT
I am sorry I wasn't clear. I was looking at the Blackhills 55gr FMJ. My first 10 years in service was in the Army. I was apart of SFOR in Slovinski Brod. I know what you mean about ammo there. The last 6 years I have been in the Air Force and get to fire about 120 rounds every year. That just isnt enough for me to feel comfortable in Iraq. The training distance I plan on using is about 100 meter or closer. I want to keep it as close as MOUNT training as possible. I am just looking for accurat reliable ammo that doesnt cost a arm and a leg. Not punt intended.

Scott
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:03:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 12:10:59 PM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By snedigity:
Thank you, for your comment about my serice. The primary use of this ammo is practice. Butt accuracy means a lot to me to. What would you suggest for when the SHTF type situation? BlackHills? I will be putting my life on the lin with M855 ammo. Kinda confuse why Blackhills would be better.



We are talking commercial vs. military contract. M855 GI issue is fine ammo. XM855PD is NOT the same as M855 as far as I am concerned. The 'PD' seems to be stuff that didn't make the cut and got swept up off the factory floor. M855 is first line ammo that passes all Lake City QC checks and gets sent to the military. FYI - this ammo can never be sold to civilians. The PD stuff seems to be Grade 3 ammo.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 12:28:47 PM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By Special-K:
As for XM-855, my experinece differs from Thompsondd's, in that I've never had any problems with it.



As I mentioned, the camp seems split over the PD stuff. Some people seem pretty pleased with it and reported no problems, others took one look at it and decided that they were NOT going to put a round through their weapons and possibly risk their weapon and their lives with it. I am of the latter camp. I would not trust my safety to it based on what I have seen.


Just to be clear, my experience was with XM193PD and XM855PD, emphasis on the "PD". Also, it is not just my experience, but the experience of a whole lot of other people that have purchased the "PD" marked ammo. Personally, after looking through a couple of handfuls of what showed up at my door, I sent mine back for a refund. Your milage may vary.

To further clarify, I keep several K of XM193 (non-PD) for my SHTF stash. I WOULD trust my life to it.

Please do not confuse XMnnn with XMnnnPD.

No one is even sure what the PD stands for (rumor has it that it simply means bulk packaging). Some think it stands for "Police Department". Others think it stands for "Partially Defective" or "Permanently Damaged".

njJoniGuy summed it up pretty well in this thread



let's see...take your choice:

pd = pretty dented
pd = propellant deficient
pd = poorly done
pd = ...and on and on...

It's not firsts
It's not even seconds

Examine each one when loading
And don't, I repeat DON'T use it when your life depends on it.





You were asking about "PD" ammo, correct? If so, please see this thread: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=241144

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