Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/25/2006 8:39:58 PM EDT
does anyone use this ammor for duty? or use it for there home protection round? just curious if it would be some good ammo to have for home security ar15

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:16:06 PM EDT
Since its a Ballistic Tip Varmint bullet, I would not count on it to penetrate deep enough to reliably reach vital organs or blood vessels. I would go with an OTM round like the 75/77 gr, M193, or a softpoint like the Winchester 64 gr Powerpoint, or Federal TRU 64 gr softpoint.

Hopefully Troy will be around shortly to offer more insight.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:22:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 9:23:14 PM EDT by AROKIE]

Originally Posted By VAPORTRAIL:
Since its a Ballistic Tip Varmint bullet, I would not count on it to penetrate deep enough to reliably reach vital organs or blood vessels. I would go with an OTM round like the 75/77 gr, M193, or a softpoint like the Winchester 64 gr Powerpoint, or Federal TRU 64 gr softpoint.

Hopefully Troy will be around shortly to offer more insight.



yes i already read his article on the top ten rounds for the .223, one mans opinion is just that. i am . i do understand that ballistic tip ammo isnt the best for penetration. but just looking for real life info on this from users of this ammo.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:40:06 AM EDT
Nope, I have used the 55grn Silvertip. I believe the 55grn to be the best compromise between bullet weight and "safety". I am constantly reading "regurgitation" of what Troy and others have said about these rounds. I am not challenging Troy's expertise, or anyone elses, but in an environment where you have neighbors near by, like through the next wall, these rounds are probably the best choice. 3-5 torso hits with these rounds in rapid succession will most certainly do the trick, if incapacitation is your goal. Please keep in mind, 75grn TAP will not instantly cause an opponent to vaporize. The reason that Winchester/Hornady manufacture these rounds in thier LE lines is because LE agencies use them/buy them. Both the citie's "SWAT" team and both county ERT's use 55grn TAP. Considering both agencies, and others have smoked base heads with these rounds, I'd say they do just fine.....

Clearly, the "seventy" something grain bullets offer the best terminal ballistics, but even they are a "compromise" for bullets in the 100grain range, which are even better yet. So, why doesn't everyone use magazine length 100 grain bullets for HD? Defensive weapons are all about compromise....there isn't a conventional rifle bullet that kills like the .50 BMG, but they don't seem to very popular for HD guns, atleast around here. I'm sure there is some Arkansas yahoo who was one in his yard on a pedestal mount, but around here, not so much. Penetration, for some, is a serious issue and something that must be addressed. Having a caviler or "I'd rather be alive and in jail" attitude isn't very bright. Id rather be dead, then be in jail for killing someone's toddler because in the heat of the moment I missed and my "heavier" than necessary round had enough retained mass to penetrate a skull. There are no "safe" bullets, thats nonsensical. Gunshots aren't supposed give you a tickle and a smile. There is no safe, only safer. There is responsible ammunition selection and mitigating possible damages in the event of a lethal encounter. To dismiss these rounds as a whole for defensive use is ignorant.

I don't use a carbine for HD, but I do keep HK 93/STANAG magazines loaded with 55grn TAP, which I use instead of Winchester. Geographical convieniece has aligned me with the good people at Hornady, so I am able to get it cheaper than Winchester. LE agencies all over the country are using this type of ammo, because of overpenetration concerns. Shot placement is everything. There isn't a .223 round that won't penetrate a neck/head at accross the room distances. Practice the failure drill and be smart.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:32:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 2:33:03 PM EDT by DevL]
100 grain ammo has a trajectory like a rainbow. Most people like the fact their rifle has an ability to engage targets at extended ranges if the need arrises. That and the fact there is no factory loaded 100 grain ammo is why people dont use 100 grain ammo for self defense. There is also no way you will get high velocity 100 grain ammo. You use slower commercial powders and end up with a reduced case capaity to boot.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 8:05:30 PM EDT
I am aware of the potential drawbacks of 100grn magazine length projectiles. That being said, laboratory experiments have demonstrated thier impressive terminal ballistics. There has been alot of development of bullets in this range, especially with the popularity of 70+ grain bullets. Within the next few years, you will see more and more of them as the technology develops. As I am sure you already know, the heavier weight 5.56 bullets don't depend entirely on velocity like a traditional FMJ round. Bullet design is also a factor, which is why these rounds will continue to factor at much lower velocities than M193/M855, which translates into more range. I wouldn't describe the trajectory of a 100grn bullet as "rainbow like", but I see why you might. .223/5.56 rounds have spoiled us in terms of flat trajectories which aren't necessarily shared with other cartridges. These 100grn VLD bullets were tailor made for distance shooting and are employed by match shooters with great success. While I recognize the effectiveness of 100grn bullets in gelatin, we aren't quite ready for 100grn TAP in 5.56, just yet anyways....but I definatly see it coming and its something that bullet manufactures are working on. Check into the 100grn stuff a little more, you might be suprised with what people are doing.

That being said, my point was more that there are always "better" cartridges that one can use, and defensive arms are all about compromise. The .50 BMG is the most effective "rifle" bullet in a number of categories and provides a level of lethality equal to or better than small cannon rounds.
While its certainly lethal, nobody is advocating its use for home defense, not practical on any number of levels. My first choice is BH 73grn Berger HP's or 75grn TAP, however for some HD scenarios, that too is impractical. If you live in close proximity to friendlies a 5.56 carbine using Vmax type rounds is an excellent comrpomise between lethality and mitigation of collateral damage.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:33:24 PM EDT
ok so going back to this ammo in topic, is it worth it? or stick with tap?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:58:04 AM EDT
Have you checked the gelatin testing that is shown at Federal's site for their loading of the 50 gr. ballistic tip bullet? I am sure the results would be similar to Winchester's LE load. Might help you make up your mind. I suppose you need to decide if the penetration with this load is adequate for the scenario that you expect to develop.

dvo
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:41:31 PM EDT
We had a nearby agency that used this ammunition--turns out is does not work so well, especially against bad guys behind glass--of course we had told them about that before their ill-fated OIS incident, but they knew better and didn't want "overpenetration" problems. Now they don't want any more problems with lack of penetration...
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:50:20 PM EDT
Not trying to hijack, but I saw TAP advertized tonight that is loaded with V-Max bullets??? I would think it would be the same as the Ballistic tips????????
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:54:09 AM EDT
Thats TAP Urban. TAP is loaded with OTMs, AFAIK.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:01:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mimikamimi:
Not trying to hijack, but I saw TAP advertized tonight that is loaded with V-Max bullets??? I would think it would be the same as the Ballistic tips????????



Not the 75gr TAP.
Top Top