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Posted: 3/25/2006 5:06:09 PM EDT
Is this likely to be bad for my M4? At the price of $140 / 1000 rnds it's pretty tempting...
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:15:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 5:17:46 PM EDT by NoHarmNoFAL-01]

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Is this likely to be bad for my M4? At the price of $140 / 1000 rnds it's pretty tempting...



Dude, I think you can do better than $140/K. Ammoman has it for $149 delivered but you could try SG or some where else. Just be patient it will be back in full force by late spring.

ETA: Before the Wolf Bashers come charging in here, NO it will not hurt you rifle. IMHO if your rifle will not work with Wolf there is something wrong with your rifle. You just may have to clean it more often.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:20:38 PM EDT
Thx bud... I was thinking more along the line of the steel cases as opposed to the brass ones... much thought on steel cases causing more wear?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:23:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Thx bud... I was thinking more along the line of the steel cases as opposed to the brass ones... much thought on steel cases causing more wear?



Won't hurt a thing. I give it an hour before somebody tells you it'll blow your gun up, kill your family and make you sterile, but it's OK.

The steel in the cases is softer than the steel in your gun.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:42:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Thx bud... I was thinking more along the line of the steel cases as opposed to the brass ones... much thought on steel cases causing more wear?



Won't hurt a thing. I give it an hour before somebody tells you it'll blow your gun up, kill your family and make you sterile, but it's OK.

The steel in the cases is softer than the steel in your gun.



You left out the part where you will smell like you have been rolling in the Kitty Litter.

As must as I like it, and I do shoot a lot of it, it does stink pretty bad. It smells like cat piss but I shoot outside in the breaze so it is tolerable.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:10:22 PM EDT
it's perfectly fine to shoot in your M4 and you can definetly find it cheaper than $140, buy it and don't listen to all the Wolf haters.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:28:04 PM EDT
With membership and coupons you can get it for $118 from SG.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:46:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 12:47:44 PM EDT by stevemr2t]
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:14:22 PM EDT
Should of sent it my way.. Ill take that shit out of your hands and I would of payed shipping.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:34:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....




Polymer coated Wolf stuck in your chamber? Or was this some of the old, no longer made laquered Wolf?

Strangley I shoot polymer-coated Wolf 62 grain in case loads every month... out of 5 ARs... and have zero problems.

As to the smell, who cares?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:26:58 PM EDT
Other Ammo smells better, it should, it is the smell of your money burning. Over 6k rounds of Wolf (the old laquer stuff) and over 500 rounds of the new poly stuff, with no problems.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:48:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:55:01 PM EDT by jaymeister99]

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....



If thats true then there is something wrong with your rifle. If this was the old laquer crap I would say yeah, but the new polymer, no way.

BTW, it only took 8 posts before the Wolf Bashing? I think that might be record!
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:52:26 PM EDT
Wolf is good stuff. I use it in My LMT and I used it in a Colt RRA franken gun I had and not even a hiccup. Both 55 gr and 62gr Hollow points.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:53:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....




Polymer coated Wolf stuck in your chamber? Or was this some of the old, no longer made laquered Wolf?

Strangley I shoot polymer-coated Wolf 62 grain in case loads every month... out of 5 ARs... and have zero problems.

As to the smell, who cares?



Call me crazy but I could swear the newer stuff smells better than the old Lacquer crap. I stopped using Wolf back a few years ago because it jammed up my gun. Didnt touch it for another 5 years or so. This time I tried the Polymer stuff, worked like a charm, and I didnt notice the smell.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:55:49 PM EDT
Wolf cases sticking in chambers sound very familiar. It happens with both of my rifles after about 150- 200 rounds of the newer 2005 manufacture(better version) and about 100 rounds with the older varnish version. I have to knock the case out of the chamber with a rod and then spray carb. cleaner down the barrel and use a chamber brush to clear the coating crap out, flush and reoil in order to start firing again. I don't plan on using any more of the Wolf steel case ammo in any of my AR's for now on. I will try some of the brass cased type when and if I see any but only if pricing is close to the .13 cents a round I am paying for the wolf now. Otherwise I will just reload more and stock up on more componets.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:24:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By biotech1:
I have to knock the case out of the chamber with a rod and then spray carb. cleaner down the barrel and use a chamber brush to clear the coating crap out, flush and reoil in order to start firing again. I don't plan on using any more of the Wolf steel case ammo in any of my AR's for now on.



Sounds very familiar! ;)
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:25:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 5:41:33 PM EDT by stevemr2t]

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....



If thats true then there is something wrong with your rifle. hr



Don't see why there would be a problem... fired 500 rounds of Black Hills imediately afterwards without a glitch... Had 5 stuck wolf rounds almost one after the other....

It was the polymer stuff BTW:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?p=WX2&i=52591
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 6:21:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....



If thats true then there is something wrong with your rifle.




Don't see why there would be a problem... fired 500 rounds of Black Hills imediately afterwards without a glitch... Had 5 stuck wolf rounds almost one after the other....

It was the polymer stuff BTW:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?p=WX2&i=52591



I dont know. I had problems with my gun being picky about ammo. Wouldnt shoot Wolf(older lacquer crap), Winchester, S&B, UMC, PMC, PMP, or SB. Only commercial ammo that would work is Black Hills and Federal. After over 100 posts here and all the "expert" opinions I finally narrowed it down to an extractor problem. Changed out the extractor spring, now it feeds and functions 100%! Even with old crappy lacquer Wolf. What other ammo have you tried in it?

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 6:52:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 6:34:01 AM EDT by stevemr2t]
Black Hills (blue box) ~ 1000 rounds, not a single issue

Winchester - ~ 500 rounds, no problems

Polymer Wolf - ~ 300 - 400 rounds, ~ 10 stuck cartridges....

Maybe my Bushmaster M4 doesn't like the wolf.... shame. the price sure is attractive ;)

I found this thread to be interesting... same rifle, same problem...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=276196&page=1

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:43:55 AM EDT
chamber size?
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:00:07 AM EDT
I will not trust a rifle that will NOT shot Wolf. IMNSHO if your rifle will not shoot it, there is something wrong with the rifle.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:06:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
I will not trust a rifle that will NOT shot Wolf. IMNSHO if your rifle will not shoot it, there is something wrong with the rifle.



I understand you opinion.... but it is well known that Wolf is not up to the pressue spec that the rifle was designed for.... and does not have enough velocity to create enough pressure to reliably cycle all AR-15's out there. But saying your measuring stick for a correct functioning rifle, is to shoot ammo not designed for that rifle, is... well... not very logical.

I can understand people who want their gun to run on Wolf, since it is cheap. But dont make that the "standard" of judgement of a reliable rifle, because it isnt. The AR can be tweaked to run on lower pressure ammo for sure.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:30:58 AM EDT
I have a few J&t kits and 2 bushmasters, all shoot wolf just fine. One of my J&T DS-4s (M4) has never shot anything but wolf. Several thousands rouns, and I've never had a problem with wolf. Over time, shoot enough rounds, odds will catch up and you'll get a jam or a dud, but I don't think it's any more than any other ammo

Assuming you've got a quality AR-15, keep your weapon clean and you'll minimize problems. Amazing how many ammo-related issues go away when the AR is properly maintained.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:49:03 PM EDT
Gone through about 2k rds of Wolf with not a problem. Price is right and will buy again. Only downside I have is the accuracy is not as good (especially HP) as the more premium grades.

I will offer that those that experienced some FTF, FTE and other issues MIGHT be pushing too many rounds downrange at a time. Perhaps Wolf ammo was not intended for that type of use ... just my opinion .
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:21:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 8:26:08 PM EDT by XM211]

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Black Hills (blue box) ~ 1000 rounds, not a single issue

Winchester - ~ 500 rounds, no problems

Polymer Wolf - ~ 300 - 400 rounds, ~ 10 stuck cartridges....

Maybe my Bushmaster M4 doesn't like the wolf.... shame. the price sure is attractive ;)

I found this thread to be interesting... same rifle, same problem...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=276196&page=1




Per the Bushmaster rep at the 2006 shot show they test their guns with wolf. No prob with it. They are on like 10K rds with one of their guns. He told me they love the stuff. Interestingly emough the only AR maker I have found that openly will not warranty their gun if shot with steel cased ammo is Olympic. Its on their web site. We all know the reputaion of Bushmaster compared to Olympic.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:56:58 PM EDT
5 AR's
3 Bushmasters
1 Stag
1 RRA
1 Armalite AR180B

18,000 rounds of Wolf through them, no failures, breakages or stuck ammo in the chamber.

Wolf's been berry berry good to me.

Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:05:30 AM EDT
The best thing I ever did was start shooting Wolf polymer ammo for practice/plinking.

At half the price of most other ammo, you simply cannot beat it. I have never had a single failure with Wolf after around 5,000 rounds.

It may be underpowered compared to M193, but a properly functioning AR should have no problems cycling it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:18:14 PM EDT
Adding to the pile...


My...

Bushie
RRA
DPMS
and Bushie Dissapator all fire Wolf without a hitch.


For a while my old Bushie (with the AK-74 style brake) choked on Wolf, but after really scrubbing the rile down and replacing the gas rings, it fires it was well as the others...

Although in the laquer era I only ran Wolf in my AK's -- since the change to polymer I've probably down ranged 15k rounds of wolf with one bad round.

That particular round the casing hole from the primer was plugged so the primer blew but did not charge the round.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 1:02:09 AM EDT
My Bushy 16" runs exclusively on Wolf, no problems.

The idea that a rifle should work with any ammo available makes a VERY good test of reliability, especially in SHTF situations for those of us that don't/can't buy 10+ cases of ammo at a time.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:38:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 5:39:44 AM EDT by FMJ]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
I will not trust a rifle that will NOT shot Wolf. IMNSHO if your rifle will not shoot it, there is something wrong with the rifle.



I understand you opinion.... but it is well known that Wolf is not up to the pressue spec that the rifle was designed for.... and does not have enough velocity to create enough pressure to reliably cycle all AR-15's out there. But saying your measuring stick for a correct functioning rifle, is to shoot ammo not designed for that rifle, is... well... not very logical.

I can understand people who want their gun to run on Wolf, since it is cheap. But dont make that the "standard" of judgement of a reliable rifle, because it isnt. The AR can be tweaked to run on lower pressure ammo for sure.




Yes and No

I think some AR15`s with H-Buffers or extra H buffers might cause the problem!

My Bushmaster A1 14.7 Shorty is a WHORE!

It will suck any 223 and 5.56mm loadings!


BUT since I added the VLTOR and there H- BUFFER it wont lock back on the last round fired?

WITH WINCHESTERS 223 55 FMJ!

NO big deal to me just switch out buffers or deal with it.



BTW yes I think wolf is good ammo for plinking and haveing fun

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:07:59 AM EDT
I'm running 500 rounds of 62gr through my RRA this weekend so we'll see how she does... BTW I got it at Cabela's for $65 per 500 rounds.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:33:35 PM EDT
Well, if you are ordering from Sportsmans Guide, the whole pissing contest might just be a moot point. I ordered in Feb, backordered until March, just got an email today that said they will not have it in stock until June. I found some at a local gun store last week (62gr FMJ) and paid $160+ tax. That was dumb but what the hell.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:44:48 AM EDT
SG has (had) Wolf in stock yesterday.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:09:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 9:10:16 AM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
Wolf is good stuff.

The last ammo-related problems I had with any of my rifles was with Q3131a. I've been through 3 cases of Wolf Polymer with 4 rifles since then.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:33:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 9:36:30 AM EDT by CWM4A1]
Just order another 3K, should ship out today. Combine with the coupon and being SG member, I pay $114.30 per 1K of 62gr poly Wolf, not too bad of a deal.

Already going through about 5K, occasional FTE that's not too big of an issue. Wolf is for plinking, not to trust my life on or go to training with. I've got 3K of XM193 and 1K of GA canned heat for those application, respectively.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:24:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:25:48 AM EDT by dumbyhotshot]

Originally Posted By stevemr2t:
Ok, since I did go ahead and purchase this ammo I figure I'd chime in my 2c on how it was....

SH*t

I think that sums it up pretty much.... After ~ 60-70 rounds the casings would start to jam in the barrel, smelled like cat p*ss as someone mentioned.... this stuff was just ugly... back to my blackhills blue boxes :)

I asked the folks at the range to trash my remaining 500+ rounds of the wolf crud....



I am now sterile cuz of wolf. It short strokes alot when my rifle gets a bit dirty. I will continue to plink with it. The price is just to good.

My last order that i put in in late January is still backordered until the end of Maythen maybe then in May
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:31:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:43:17 PM EDT by _DR]
I have used Wolf quite a bit in the past for plinking, I stopped because my experience is that it's the least accurate ammo you can buy for your AR15 and it's underpowered. That and it stinks(smell-wise).

I don't think the new polymer coated stuff will hurt your AR, although I would not shoot the old laquer coated stuff.

For a few cents more per round I can shoot surplus ammo that is reasonably accurate.

I have a few hundred rounds of the polymer coated 62gr left over from the last case that has been sitting in my safe for 2 years because I don't enjoy shooting Wolf any more.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:48:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:23:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 12:24:28 PM EDT by GETSUM]

Originally Posted By swingset:
5 AR's
3 Bushmasters
1 Stag
1 RRA
1 Armalite AR180B

18,000 rounds of Wolf through them, no failures, breakages or stuck ammo in the chamber.

Wolf's been berry berry good to me.




4 ARs with ONLY - WOLF through them.

OLYMPIC - <-- .223 chamber
DPMS - <-- .223 chamber
Rock River - <-- 5.56 chamber
GRIZZLEY / Home made upper ( PISTOL11.5" ) <-- Who knows ?

Not a single problem EVER with either type of WOLF
GREEN or GREY
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:47:39 PM EDT
I run wolf polymer 62 & 55grn in my m-16 all the time w/o problem
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:07:19 PM EDT
OK, OK, let me get this right. You are ordering Wolf .223 62gr HP (that is what my order from Feb is) from Sportsmans guide--and it is shipping the next day? WTF.

I ordered on Feb 25th, was told it would ship on March 29th and just got an email 2 days ago saying it will not be in until May 30th. Whos shitlist did I get on?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:14:27 PM EDT

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:44:15 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:05:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:




+infinity
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:24:01 AM EDT
I like the wolf, Pay 150 for 1000 and thats from the local gunshop.I like to just walk in and buy it instead of mail order.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:20:00 AM EDT
Put about 300 rounds of it through my AR this weekend. It did just fine and didn't stink at all... Will buy plenty more in the future.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:50:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
I have used Wolf quite a bit in the past for plinking, I stopped because my experience is that it's the least accurate ammo you can buy for your AR15 and it's underpowered. That and it stinks(smell-wise).

I don't think the new polymer coated stuff will hurt your AR, although I would not shoot the old laquer coated stuff.

For a few cents more per round I can shoot surplus ammo that is reasonably accurate.
I have a few hundred rounds of the polymer coated 62gr left over from the last case that has been sitting in my safe for 2 years because I don't enjoy shooting Wolf any more.





Where do you get surplus for "a few cents more" ?


Thanks,

Travis
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:56:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 11:00:32 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By TravisJ1:

Originally Posted By _DR:
I have used Wolf quite a bit in the past for plinking, I stopped because my experience is that it's the least accurate ammo you can buy for your AR15 and it's underpowered. That and it stinks(smell-wise).

I don't think the new polymer coated stuff will hurt your AR, although I would not shoot the old laquer coated stuff.

For a few cents more per round I can shoot surplus ammo that is reasonably accurate.
I have a few hundred rounds of the polymer coated 62gr left over from the last case that has been sitting in my safe for 2 years because I don't enjoy shooting Wolf any more.



Where do you get surplus for "a few cents more" ?


Thanks,

Travis



Radway green, south african, gutemalan battle pack, look on AIM surplus for the latter. ALL of this stuff is hotter and more accurate than Wolf, and cost me maybe 5 cents more a round. The RG SS109 I bought at ammo depot #2 in caddo mills, the south african from the same place but those stocks have dried up now.

I just don't like having ammo laying around I would not feel comfortable using in SHTF if the need arose. Wolf is definitely NOT SHTF material, in any way shape or form.

If someone is interested in my remaning stocks of Wolf and is local to Plano, TX or the area, IM me and maybe we can work something out. Don't ask me to ship the stuff, local only.
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