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Posted: 3/25/2006 12:42:52 PM EDT
Enough individuals have now posted ALL Over the WWW being told by this Retailer and that Distributer that Ammunition prices are going up accross the board due to the Increased cost of Materials and transportation; that NO one can any longer DOUBT the Truth of these reports.

There are Many contributing Factors as to why the prices of the 1990s for such things as Gasoline, Food, Ammunition, clothes, etc. ARE HISTORY ! They AREN'T coming back.

What everyone should be doing is planning to purchase any types and calibres which they need at the lowest prices they can find until the amount needed has been reached. As for future replacement of the ammo consumed, your ONLY choice is to continue to search out the best prices.

I along with MILLIONS of others LONG for the prices of old. Alas, they are HISTORY. So get your revenge by laying in a LIFETIME supply! Then in coming decades you can Laugh at the prices available then.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 1:05:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 1:06:36 PM EDT by MFP_4073]
Spoken like an undercover ammo merchant... h
I think we will see prices taper back eventually if all the current conflicts dissipate and we can get back to 'normal' supply and demand.

Hoarding keeps prices going higher (by drying up supply) but I understand that some people think it is appropriate.

Just my $.02.

4073
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 1:16:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:
What everyone should be doing is planning to purchase any types and calibres which they need at the lowest prices they can find until the amount needed has been reached.



Uhh, thats impossible. My 'needed' amount is a few billion (of each caliber.) Not sure when/if I can get there.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 1:28:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Enough individuals have now posted ALL Over the WWW



Who are these individuals?
How many is enough?
Who are you to say there has been enough?
Do you really think writing in sweeping statements is persuasive?
Do you write those e-mails that try to convince people to buy some fitty cent stock?

Ordinarily, I would blow this kind of stuff off and move along. However, today I am not feeling well.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 1:58:20 PM EDT
There was a time in the 1990's when 7.62x39 was $325.00 per 1000.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:19:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
There was a time in the 1990's when 7.62x39 was $325.00 per 1000.




True...well, never paid quite that much, but the prices have come down considerably on 7.62x39- supply and demand. While I, as with a number of members on this board, have a decent stockpile running, I could never afford a purchasing a "lifetime supply" of ammo at any one time (at least not currently).

When I tried to figure how much I would "need" - conservatively - I realized it was just not possible. Aside from the fact that I regurlarly shoot 3 diffferent rifle calibers, I go through a bare minimum of 5000 rounds of 5.56 a year (and that is child's play compared to what some guys around here go through).

I figure, God willing of course, I've got around 50 years left on Earth. Unless you know of somewhere I can get 250,000 rds. of ammo cheap, I guess I'll have no choice but to sit on my 20k stashed and hope it doesn't get too bad.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:56:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By astrafire:

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Enough individuals have now posted ALL Over the WWW



Who are these individuals?
How many is enough?
Who are you to say there has been enough?
Do you really think writing in sweeping statements is persuasive?
Do you write those e-mails that try to convince people to buy some fitty cent stock?

Ordinarily, I would blow this kind of stuff off and move along. However, today I am not feeling well.



Hope you feel better. Being sick sucks.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:03:24 PM EDT
Yes, the price is going to continue to climb due to many of the reasons mentioned. However, the perspective lost here is the one of monetary policy by the FED. It is not merely an issue of things actually costing more, though no doubt that is true. It is mainly a problem of the US dollar becoming worth less and less due to inflation of the money supply by Mr. Greenspan and now Mr. "Helicopter Ben" Bernanke. The FED has been flooding the world with liquidity for 15 years, and now the dollar is tanking. Someday, that cheap Wolf will not be so cheap anymore. 266
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:05:33 PM EDT
Peple like Mars511 post this kind of shit, then dont ever reply or post a response to the logical replies by others....and his acount has like what 2 dozen posts... I agree with astrafire....I dont usualy lick these broad general type statements, but tonight im bored and this guy is clearly more bored then me...

Plus the economics of what he is saying we need to do...is impossible for the majority of people out there...expensses like of family, food and shelter kind of take a precedent....but IM sure for a single loner like Mars511, those things dont factor in.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:17:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
There was a time in the 1990's when 7.62x39 was $325.00 per 1000.





It's funny that you mention this.....I remember in the '94 - '95 time frame when 7.62x39 was around $325 per 1,000 (when you could find it), and just a couple years prior to this you could find the same ammo for $80 - $90.

When people ask me why I buy so much ammo, I always bring up cost of 7.62x39 from '90 to '95 as an example. The ammo market like many other markets, it's not always stable and I have seen the ammo market take it's ups and downs in the last couple decades.

When ammo is avalible and affordable, buy and stock up as much as possible.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:28:52 PM EDT
I have Trouble with the random capitals. It makes It hard to Read, not to mention Being a master Of The obvious.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:33:07 PM EDT
When demand is high and supply is low, prices go up.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:40:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 7:41:21 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By Mars511:
There are Many contributing Factors as to why the prices of the 1990s for such things as Gasoline, Food, Ammunition, clothes, etc. ARE HISTORY ! They AREN'T coming back.




Yeah sparky, because its 2006.

I know this econ shit requires some high-end thinking, but damn dude, you're a genius.


Link Posted: 3/25/2006 8:36:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 8:37:38 PM EDT by CAR_16]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Mars511:
There are Many contributing Factors as to why the prices of the 1990s for such things as Gasoline, Food, Ammunition, clothes, etc. ARE HISTORY ! They AREN'T coming back.




Yeah sparky, because its 2006.

I know this econ shit requires some high-end thinking, but damn dude, you're a genius.





+1

Check your calendar.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:07:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 9:10:07 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
Mars511 is an ammunition dealer or something, read his other posts.

Ammunition prices will come down again one day (maybe not to $130/1000, etc. of the 90's). It's economics. It's just a matter of the GWOT and current panick buying drying up supply. At some point it will become too expensive and people will be pretty well stocked, so the panick buying will slow down. On top of that, when demand is high, prices go up and there is incentive for more people with the startup capital to start manufacturing ammuntion. Hence the intro of Prvi Partisan to the market, etc. More will join in manufacturing ammunition to partake in the profits.

When oil was $30/barrel no one (with the $) cared about alternative energies and setting up new drilling in certain places wasn't worth the cost. Now that it is $60/barrel, those places that were too expensive to drill are suddenly profitable, etc. Same thing here.

That said there is no turning point in the foreseeable future, so expect this to continue for awhile.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:51:38 AM EDT
One thing no one has mentioned is the eftards over at the UN and their efforts to dry up supply. I am, as my budget allows, putting by as much 5.56 and surplus .308 as I can. At the same time I am picking up the items/components to reload these calibers.

While prices in general MAY go down, who knows for sure, the UN is doing all it can to eliminate supply of this ammunition. Won't matter if the price is 2 cents a round if it isn't there. I don't see what I'm doing as panic buying, just bowing to reality. I'm redirecting shooting $ from things I can put off to those I may not be able to in the future.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 7:53:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 7:53:46 AM EDT by XDBACKUPGUN]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Mars511:
There are Many contributing Factors as to why the prices of the 1990s for such things as Gasoline, Food, Ammunition, clothes, etc. ARE HISTORY ! They AREN'T coming back.




Yeah sparky, because its 2006.

I know this econ shit requires some high-end thinking, but damn dude, you're a genius.








Link Posted: 3/26/2006 8:02:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:
I along with MILLIONS of others LONG for the prices of old. Alas, they are HISTORY. So get your revenge by laying in a LIFETIME supply! Then in coming decades you can Laugh at the prices available then.




I agree. Big prices are less gooder than small prices. I'm going get my revenge by laying in a LIFETIME supply of automobiles. Then in coming decades I can laugh! Yay!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:46:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 2:49:49 PM EDT by Firefoxammo]
If I may add my 2 cents. As we all know 5.56 and .308 cost has risen dramatically over the past year or so. I have heard that gas prices, material prices ect as a cause. Yet I look at other ammo such as .22lr, 12ga, 45acp, and 30-30 ammo and the cost has remained the same. U tell me what the difference is. They are all made with the same materials with the exception of the 12ga. I think its 90% supply demand and 10% rising costs.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:55:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Firefoxammo:
If I may add my 2 cents. As we all know 5.56 and .308 cost has risen dramatically over the past year or so. I have heard that gas prices, material prices ect as a cause. Yet I look at other ammo such as .22lr, 12ga, 45acp, and 30-30 ammo and the cost has remained the same. U tell me what the difference is. They are all made with the same materials with the exception of the 12ga. I think its 90% supply demand and 10% rising costs.



your right its supply and demand....5.56 and .308 miltary calibers are in short supply..Civilian calibers are plentiful


Longhunter
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:52:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 3:53:53 PM EDT by stator]
There are only three factors that affect the price of ammo: supply, demand, and regulations. It is the regulations that worry me. If the government decides to get out of the regulation business, we will have cheap ammo to shoot for the rest of our lives.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:04:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:25:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 8:27:06 AM EDT by Mars511]
For the MILLIONTH time, I am NOT a Firearms or Ammunition Dealer NOR Am I employed by ANYONE in the Firearms or Ammunition industry PERIOD ! ! !

What I have been posting about was well in Motion PRIOR to my posting.

Anyone who thinks FOOD, GUNS, AMMO, GASOLINE, etc. will go back to pre-2000 prices had better present some HARD CORE PROOF if the want to convince anyone. So far NO PROOF has been offered just a bunch of "ME THINK-SOs".

Look, it does NO good to tell people something without evidence and proof. Why is it so difficult for some to accept what is ALREADY Fact about when prices rise IF they fall it is NOT to levels below the previous levels of years before. Yes there are Exceptions to this Rule but that is what Makes them exceptions.

When ALL of the factors causing the current price increases in ammo GO AWAY Then NO need for the increase would exist RIGHT? So WHO is claiming that the price increases in Metals as well as other manufacturing materials used to make ammo are GOING AWAY? Who is claiming that Gasoline costs (ie OIL) price increases will fall back to 2001 levels? In short who is claiming that ALL the cost increases since 2001 will EVER be reversed? I want my Nalley's chili to cost .69 a can MSRP again ! It AIN'T gonna happen in ANY of our lifetimes !

So what do we do about these facts? Buy Now or CRY LATER !

Why is it that a few Americans HATE ANYONE who brings them news they DON'T want to hear? Just go out and stock-up or grin and bear it.

I have Already done it, Why aren't you?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:30:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:36:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 9:49:40 AM EDT by astrafire]
Enough Arfcom members have now posted ALL Over the Arfcom that Mars511 is an Ammunition wholesaler because he regular makes baseless chicken little postings about ammo shortages, that NO one can any longer DOUBT the Truth of these reports.

ETA: Yes I am still sick.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:21:31 AM EDT
Are prices up? Yep.
Are prices going to be up for a while? Yep.

The price of ammo is based upon supply and demand. Demand is high now and will be for the forseeable future. At the same time, production has ramped up to meet demand. At some point in the future (when we win the war on terror), demand will sharply drop. That will create a glut and prices will go down accordingly.

There will be an ammo glut at some point in the future. Probably 62gr fmjbt.

Solution for now: Buy a Dillon 550B and learn to produce your own.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:15:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
One thing no one has mentioned is the eftards over at the UN and their efforts to dry up supply. I am, as my budget allows, putting by as much 5.56 and surplus .308 as I can. At the same time I am picking up the items/components to reload these calibers.

While prices in general MAY go down, who knows for sure, the UN is doing all it can to eliminate supply of this ammunition. Won't matter if the price is 2 cents a round if it isn't there. I don't see what I'm doing as panic buying, just bowing to reality. I'm redirecting shooting $ from things I can put off to those I may not be able to in the future.



WHy does the UN want to dry up supply?

I still don't know how i feel about the UN. They do some good things and other things they do piss me off. It reminds me too much of the Senate from star wars.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:00:32 PM EDT
Dude, what the hell R U Ranting about


Originally Posted By Mars511:
For the MILLIONTH time, I am NOT a Firearms or Ammunition Dealer NOR Am I employed by ANYONE in the Firearms or Ammunition industry PERIOD ! ! !

What I have been posting about was well in Motion PRIOR to my posting.

Anyone who thinks FOOD, GUNS, AMMO, GASOLINE, etc. will go back to pre-2000 prices had better present some HARD CORE PROOF if the want to convince anyone. So far NO PROOF has been offered just a bunch of "ME THINK-SOs".

Look, it does NO good to tell people something without evidence and proof. Why is it so difficult for some to accept what is ALREADY Fact about when prices rise IF they fall it is NOT to levels below the previous levels of years before. Yes there are Exceptions to this Rule but that is what Makes them exceptions.

When ALL of the factors causing the current price increases in ammo GO AWAY Then NO need for the increase would exist RIGHT? So WHO is claiming that the price increases in Metals as well as other manufacturing materials used to make ammo are GOING AWAY? Who is claiming that Gasoline costs (ie OIL) price increases will fall back to 2001 levels? In short who is claiming that ALL the cost increases since 2001 will EVER be reversed? I want my Nalley's chili to cost .69 a can MSRP again ! It AIN'T gonna happen in ANY of our lifetimes !

So what do we do about these facts? Buy Now or CRY LATER !

Why is it that a few Americans HATE ANYONE who brings them news they DON'T want to hear? Just go out and stock-up or grin and bear it.

I have Already done it, Why aren't you?

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:25:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:

Look, it does NO good to tell people something without evidence and proof. Why is it so difficult for some to accept what is ALREADY Fact about when prices rise IF they fall it is NOT to levels below the previous levels of years before. Yes there are Exceptions to this Rule but that is what Makes them exceptions.




Wheres your proof? You say all this and then make claims like your initial post, come on.....wheres your proof. Typical attempt at trying to instil hysteria.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:37:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:

Originally Posted By callgood:
One thing no one has mentioned is the eftards over at the UN and their efforts to dry up supply. I am, as my budget allows, putting by as much 5.56 and surplus .308 as I can. At the same time I am picking up the items/components to reload these calibers.

While prices in general MAY go down, who knows for sure, the UN is doing all it can to eliminate supply of this ammunition. Won't matter if the price is 2 cents a round if it isn't there. I don't see what I'm doing as panic buying, just bowing to reality. I'm redirecting shooting $ from things I can put off to those I may not be able to in the future.



WHy does the UN want to dry up supply?

I still don't know how i feel about the UN. They do some good things and other things they do piss me off. It reminds me too much of the Senate from star wars.



Because without guns and ammo, governments have an easier time controlling their population. The UNs end goal is to be over ALL Countries, and be the final say or arbitrator of what goes on. The only way to do this is to disarm, one at a time, each country.

To have control of this, they need to limit the flow of guns and AMMO from country to country. To that end they have been offering a carrot and stick approach. Destroy [not surplus and sell] surplussed military goods to include ammo. They already have numerous countries signed up and the ammo is either dumped in the ocean or scrapped out with the brass being recycled and the powder used for fertilizer or whatever they do with it.

It was fascinating to see the games played with the SA 5.56 that was imported years ago. There was a great article/writeup on how it was shuffled around till it made it here to be sold.

Make no mistake, there will always be surplus, problem is, will it be allowed to be sold on the civilian market? Heck, even our Country won't surplus GI ammo anymore unless it is demilled.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:11:21 PM EDT
Just for refrence , shortly before the AW ban in the early 90s , my dad was told by local gun dealers that clinton was gonna ban the import and sale of any ammo made overseas ,and the possible ban of any ammo for 'assault weapons'

Whether it be true or not at that time , my dad paid $400 for a case of 7.62x39 , and that was the normal going rate of a case back at that time. I know of a individual who bought no less than 3 cases of the ammo just becuase of the various rumors circulating around.

We'll never see prices go back down , but we will see good deals, we live in a capitalistic society , and where there's money to be made , people will do so. Thats why i love georgia arms so much , $160 for a case of ammo , and its great stuff.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:02:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Enough individuals have now posted ALL Over the WWW being told by this Retailer and that Distributer that Ammunition prices are going up accross the board due to the Increased cost of Materials and transportation; that NO one can any longer DOUBT the Truth of these reports.

There are Many contributing Factors as to why the prices of the 1990s for such things as Gasoline, Food, Ammunition, clothes, etc. ARE HISTORY ! They AREN'T coming back.

What everyone should be doing is planning to purchase any types and calibres which they need at the lowest prices they can find until the amount needed has been reached. As for future replacement of the ammo consumed, your ONLY choice is to continue to search out the best prices.

I along with MILLIONS of others LONG for the prices of old. Alas, they are HISTORY. So get your revenge by laying in a LIFETIME supply! Then in coming decades you can Laugh at the prices available then.



I think you work for Marvel Comics, writing dialogue in the comic strips.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:09:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shockergd:
Thats why i love georgia arms so much , $160 for a case of ammo , and its great stuff.



Too bad it's up to $180/k now. Still not bad though.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:18:55 PM EDT
Gee, do you think that just maybe some of the cost increase is the fact that we're fighting a two front war on terror (5.56) and helping train the Iraqi military/police forces (7.62)?

That kind of stuff tends to take a lot of ammo and manufacturing capacity.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:23:14 PM EDT
Dude. I'm 19 years old. I'm in college. I have about $350 in my bank account.

Where the hell am I gonna find roughly 200,000rds of ammo for the 60 or so years I have left on this planet for $350? (this is just for 5.56, mind you; I have .22lr, 7.62x39, .40S&W, .222 Remington, 7.62x51, 20ga, 16ga, and 12ga to stock up on also)

I doubt there's a single person here that can afford to buy a lifetime supply of ammo right now (unless, of course, they have cancer or have Bill Gate's pin number).

Buying a lifetime supply of anything is not feasible 99% of the time.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:23:07 PM EDT
Does the US government really destroy all the surplus ammo they have? Logic tells me that they would A) practice with it or B) Do what everyone here is doing and stockpile it so they don't have to buy as much. If they did choose option B, Lake City and whoever else makes M885 wouldn't be bogged down with the .gov contract so we the consumer would be able to get "1st class" m885. Am i correct in my assumption? I'm new to the world of military surplus.

As for the UN, they're a bunch of hippocrits. They tell people not to waste food, but they're dumping ammunition in the ocean?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 8:25:14 PM EDT by repub18]
I just don't shoot as much as I used to. It sucks but there is no way I am paying $250 for a case of 5.56 or $150 for 7.62X39.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:33:30 AM EDT
According to what has been said by those in the US Military, when ammunition stocks are rotated they go to fill any need at that time. Since the current active combat needs are exceeding the current production and rotated surplus supplies to the point where contracts have been given to Israel, PMC, Federal, and other civilian manufacturers Domestic and Foreign; the question is WHAT SURPLUS is there left to sell?

What is Lake City selling on the US market? Out of SPEC Components?

With the Billions of rounds produced in the 80's and 90's Why didn't masses of it show up on the US market?

The current going price for almost all 5.56/.223 is about $200 per 1000 rounds.

WIZZO_ARAKM14, If you think the current and past Political Leader's decisions SUCK wait till Hillary comes to power. I'm recognize your plight and wish I could suggest more than for you to look for partners in a combined effort to supply future needs.

Stockergd, In fact what your Dad was told was partially correct. The ATF was commisioned to draft regulations that would make the Importation of Military calibre Foreign ammunition unlawful with the mere stroke of a president's pen. Those regulations are just waiting for that to happen.

Yes the UN already has a long list of nations who have signed the Convention on the reduction of the proliferation of Small Arms and Ammunition via the ending of the practice of Nations surplusing Arms and Ammo .

Cold, my posts on the Ammunition SITREP 2006 are to be found on the GENERAL DISCUSSION Board due to my lack of awareness of the Ammunition forums location at the time of posting.

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443822
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:54:29 PM EDT
sources, sources, sources. Look, in my line of work, I cant make claims with out sources....you make a good arguement Mars511...however their only statements until you have the source of the info. So essentially they become claims until you can show an issued statement by a company which you mention etc. I just hear this end of this and that all the time, would love to finally see some issued proof thats all.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:00:18 PM EDT
in 2020 you'll be reminiscing about how cheap ammo was in 06 and how you could still get Hi-cap mags
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:14:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:
According to what has been said by those in the US Military, when ammunition stocks are rotated they go to fill any need at that time. Since the current active combat needs are exceeding the current production and rotated surplus supplies to the point where contracts have been given to Israel, PMC, Federal, and other civilian manufacturers Domestic and Foreign; the question is WHAT SURPLUS is there left to sell?


All the surplus on the market today is non-USGI surplus (ie other countries).


What is Lake City selling on the US market? Out of SPEC Components?

Federal has the current contract to produce ammo for the military. Let's say they are contracted to produce 100,000 rounds. They ramp up and produce 110,000 rounds. They sell the extra 10,000 rounds in consumer packaging.


With the Billions of rounds produced in the 80's and 90's Why didn't masses of it show up on the US market?

US surplus is not sold on the market. It is sold to contractors who pull the ammo. Those components are sold on the market to reloaders. You can buy USGI pulled bullets, powder, brass, etc.


The current going price for almost all 5.56/.223 is about $200 per 1000 rounds.

More like $225/k average (see tacked thread at top of forum).


WIZZO_ARAKM14, If you think the current and past Political Leader's decisions SUCK wait till Hillary comes to power. I'm recognize your plight and wish I could suggest more than for you to look for partners in a combined effort to supply future needs.

That may happen, but it doesn't have anything to do with your original premise of ammo shortages.


Stockergd, In fact what your Dad was told was partially correct. The ATF was commisioned to draft regulations that would make the Importation of Military calibre Foreign ammunition unlawful with the mere stroke of a president's pen. Those regulations are just waiting for that to happen.

Source? I'm sure the ATF has been asked alot of "what if"s and "could be"s.


Yes the UN already has a long list of nations who have signed the Convention on the reduction of the proliferation of Small Arms and Ammunition via the ending of the practice of Nations surplusing Arms and Ammo.

Yep. The UN is a POS org.


Cold, my posts on the Ammunition SITREP 2006 are to be found on the GENERAL DISCUSSION Board due to my lack of awareness of the Ammunition forums location at the time of posting.

Saw them. Still looking for collaboration.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:34:20 PM EDT
Since I had zero money last year to really put towards ammo I am stocking up on good buys this year. Right now the south african stuff from aim is a good buy in my opinion.

7.62x39 is a not so good buy right now and I am betting it gets cheaper in a few months to one year.

Overall the laws are what bother me. The fact my tax dollars help make the US military ammo really irks me when I read that I can only buy surplus ammo in components.

The UN and my own government disturb me as well when it comes to importing ammo.

Overall if you are in college or have made other choices that tie up your money, do the best you can.

As far as who might work for an ammo dealer, harping on the same topic in a repeated fashion will cause some folks to form opinion.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:20:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:00:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By flannagan_bryan:
The UN is your enemy, not ATF, not the Clintons (ok maybe she is one big hag), the UN has ruined numerous deals that i have been involved in. The UN has made deals with overseas freight companies to not move containers carrying military goods (ammo and guns), when you hear about increasing freight costs look right here. EXAMPLE... a importer friend had a container of ammo moved in 2004 cost him $4,000, this year the shipping ffor the same ammo cost $20,000.

My .02



Bryan - brutha - I agree with everything you said - except the ATF and the Clintons ARE my enemy.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:20:49 AM EDT
Newly produced ammo is going to continue to go up as the prices of metals goes up. They just arrested a couple stealing copper from construction sites here since it has gone up 400% in 2 years.
Georgia arms went up because of the higher price in metals is what they told me at the gun show last month.
I shot alot of 223 and 308 in the late 80's. Sure it was cheaper but 223 has not changed much except for the military ammo. Since the recent run on ammo alot of dealers jacked the prices up since it comes and goes. When the demand goes down and more surplus from other countries hit the streets it will come down again. Don't expect newly produced ammo to come down due to the high metal prices.
JR
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 10:26:05 AM EDT
Cold, with all due respect I posted some easily verifiable causal factors as to why ammo prices have been increasing.
"When ALL of the factors causing the current price increases in ammo GO AWAY Then NO need for the increase would exist RIGHT? So WHO is claiming that the price increases in Metals as well as other manufacturing materials used to make ammo are GOING AWAY? Who is claiming that Gasoline costs (ie OIL) price increases will fall back to 2001 levels? In short who is claiming that ALL the cost increases since 2001 will EVER be reversed? I want my Nalley's chili to cost .69 a can MSRP again ! It AIN'T gonna happen in ANY of our lifetimes !"

If for no other reason this alone would prevent ammo prices from returning to the 1990's levels.

Please read flannagan_bryan's post above for more confirmation of the UN's part as well as the materials cost increases effect on supplies and prices.

I would observe that since Lake City's (run by Federal) entire production capacity of 5.56, 7.62x51, 50 cal., etc. does NOT satisfy the current needs of our Military so much so that the US is contracting both Domestic and Foreign manufacturers to the tune of MILLIONS of rounds; that there will be NO Over-runs and NO Components available to the civilian market until AFTER the current needs are met.

Look, the only Components which are left from the current L.C. production that are NOT used to make ammo for Our military are OUT of SPEC.

Again, Every round of ammo L.C. produces as well as the rotated reserve stocks are going to our military along with Millions of rounds of contract produced ammo. Where are the
OVER-RUN rounds? Where are they from? NOT L.C. ! NOT the Contractors!

This also means that unless the contracts have been let to include rounds to place in Storage, there will NOT be surplus components from the CURRENT production to be rotated out 10, 20, 30 years from now.

That is the future of US Military components.

Civilian sources for ammunition both Domestic and Foreign will continue to be available subject to changes in Political situation, New Laws, restrictive regulations, or any other restrictions which may be applied in the future.

All I have said is that for a number of reasons Foreign Military Surplus Rifle ammo is being reduced and in other cases Cut-Off NOW at this point in time. If the UN succeeds ( see flannagan_bryan's post above) ALL F.M.S.R ammo will cease to be available in the near future. In addition, US Military Surplus Componnents and Re-Manufactured ammo will stop being available except for NON-SPEC type components in the future (see above).

That leaves Civilian sources both Domestic and Foreign at ever increasing prices for the public to turn to.

This is all very simple to see and understand. It is also UNDENIABLE !

Why do I post all of this? To motivate my fellow Americans to save money and buy now.

As far as the Ammo Industry's Best interests, it HURTS them if you Buy Now at lower prices rather than if you wait and buy at the HIGHER prices. I am not serving their interests now am I?

Again my PLEA is thast if you want to save money Buy Now.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:04:25 AM EDT
So let me get this straight, the point of this thread is that prices will go up?

Holy Crap is that true!?

You mean I really can't buy a Corvet for $4 grand like you could when I was a kid? You mean Colts are no longer $400 (full auto around $500) like when I was in college?

You should really get the word out on this!!!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:06:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:39:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By flannagan_bryan:
falarak, my true enemy is the scale, it haunts me.



Atkins baby!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:43:40 PM EDT
As far as the Ammo Industry's Best interests, it HURTS them if you Buy Now at lower prices rather than if you wait and buy at the HIGHER prices. I am not serving their interests now am I

I don't see why it hurts them to buy now when most of them bought the ammo at old prices and are just jacking up the price because of the run on ammo. Just like the gas and oil industry. They jack their prices long before any increase hits the market and are making record profits.
If they pay more for the ammo in the future they aren't necessarily making more profit. There is only a certain price point where demand will decrease and prices will at least come down from the inflated prices minus the actual cost of the materials.
There are still plenty of good buys right now. Even at 5.00 a box for ammo its still a deal. Probably not if you go out and blow off 1000 rounds or more in a weekend as some claim. I don't see how anybody can shoot that much and expect to gain anything from it and I used to be a firearms instructor.
JR
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:59:59 PM EDT
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