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Posted: 3/20/2006 1:08:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 10:20:59 AM EDT by g00b]
BIG MISTAKE!!! MY BAD!!! FOR SOME REASON I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE ADCOM 855, IT IS FEDERAL LAKE CITY, INSTEAD. THAT'S WHAT I GET FFOR POSTING AT 3 IN THE MORNING!

Federal® Lake City Mil.-spec. G.I. .223 62 Gr. FMJ

Out of 500 rds I have rejected about 20 so far, and I haven't gone through it all yet. Two of these rounds were very nasty, I have posted pics of both as a warning. Not that I'm an expert but they sure look like potential "kabooms" to me. The rest of the rejected rounds had smaller dings, dents and creases. All of the ammo was dirty, not corroded but covered in a tar like substance.

Despite all this, because of my sorting I suppose, I have only experienced 2 FTF's (small dent in primers) and maybe a 1/2 dozen stovepipes in the 400 rds or so I've shot. Not too bad. This stuff is pretty accurate and fairly hot too, much better than the Wolf I tried (new poly-coated stuff).

http://www.easyracers.com/gabes/temp/DSCF4353.jpg

http://www.easyracers.com/gabes/temp/DSCF4352.jpg
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:24:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 11:03:34 AM EDT by Cyclic240B]
NM, my comment was based on an incorrect original post from the author....
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:57:06 AM EDT
I'm sad to see this beause their 9mm is some of the best I've shot -
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:01:33 AM EDT
My adcom never came with green tips..weird
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:04:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:
My adcom never came with green tips..weird



Mine either. I think I have every year headstamp too. ADCOM M855 is not supposed to have green tips.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:19:30 AM EDT
Whats the head stamp on your casings?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:09:03 AM EDT
Adcom doesn't have green tips? Well either mine does or it aint Adcom hen
Thanks!
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:22:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g00b:
Adcom doesn't have green tips? Well either mine does or it aint Adcom I'll take some pics when I get home after work.

Thanks!



None of my 2k rounds have them either...
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:44:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 10:44:54 AM EDT by BSTOCK]
My eyes are not the greatest but it looks to me like the head stamp says LC on it with a 2 digit date + a Nato cross. ADCOM doesn't have a Nato cross.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:30:34 AM EDT
Well duh! Went back and checked my receipt, It aint Adcom, it's Federal® Lake City Mil.-spec. G.I. .223 62 Gr. FMJ! How I got the two mixed up I'll never know. Sorry for the mis-info. Still some funky lookin' ammo!
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:35:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g00b:
Well duh! Went back and checked my receipt, It aint Adcom, it's Federal® Lake City Mil.-spec. G.I. .223 62 Gr. FMJ! How I got the two mixed up I'll never know. Sorry for the mis-info. Still some funky lookin' ammo!



Do you know if it's the xm855PD or not?

or better yet, how was it packaged? In bulk or 20 per box?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:02:26 PM EDT
Came loose, bulk, in a box 4 times too big.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:36:17 PM EDT
istn that normal for PD?

ammoman has some LC M855 that comes in can/Bandoliers it very good stuff! No bad bullets!
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 6:51:48 PM EDT by BSTOCK]

Originally Posted By g00b:
Well duh! Went back and checked my receipt, It aint Adcom, it's Federal® Lake City Mil.-spec. G.I. .223 62 Gr. FMJ! How I got the two mixed up I'll never know. Sorry for the mis-info. Still some funky lookin' ammo!



That's why I quit drinking
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By g00b:
Came loose, bulk, in a box 4 times too big.



That's a surefire giveaway it's the PD ammo.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By g00b:
Came loose, bulk, in a box 4 times too big.



That's a surefire giveaway it's the PD ammo.



and what does the "pd" actually mean tho?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:53:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Visable-assassin:
and what does the "pd" actually mean tho?




PD= Please destroy. Screw the PD, I found some NIB Lake City M855...

AC
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:55:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Visable-assassin:

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By g00b:
Came loose, bulk, in a box 4 times too big.



That's a surefire giveaway it's the PD ammo.



and what does the "pd" actually mean tho?





that's the million dollar question
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Praetorian55:

Originally Posted By g00b:
Adcom doesn't have green tips? Well either mine does or it aint Adcom I'll take some pics when I get home after work.

Thanks!



None of my 2k rounds have them either...



Most M855/SS109 does not have a green tip. I think only the IMI and USGI 5.56 has a green tip. There are a few others, but generally only those two. Most countries that only have SS109 in their inventory dont have green tips, since the green tips are used to easily identify these from M193.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:21:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Visable-assassin:

Originally Posted By billclo:

Originally Posted By g00b:
Came loose, bulk, in a box 4 times too big.



That's a surefire giveaway it's the PD ammo.



and what does the "pd" actually mean tho?




WMHM4 is right, nobody really knows what PD stands for but the box of it I have clearly states to use for practice only.

Here is some text from one of the reviews on some xm193PD

This comes up over and over again, so here are the facts. And, no, no one here knows what "PD" really stands for, if anything.



The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is the only remaining small-arms ammo factory owned by the government, and is the source of most ammo used by the US military. [Due to the drastic increase in ammo usage with the WoT, Winchester/Olin, the only other company with the loading machines to make mil-spec ammo, has been given a contract for a few million rounds of ammo.]

Lake City, while owned by the government, has always been run by civilian contractors. From 1986-1999, it was operated by Olin (Winchester). The Winchester "white box" "Q-load" ammo (such as Q3131) was Lake City-manufactured ammo stamped with Winchester (WCC) headstamps.

Starting in 2000, the contract to operate Lake City was given to Alliant Techsystems (ATK), who had just bought all the gun-related companies that were formerly owned by Blount. This "shooting sports group" included: Federal, Speer, CCI, RCBS, Weaver, Outers, Ramline, and perhaps one or two others. ATK chose Federal to run Lake City, and thus, the "Federal XMxxx" loads were born.

The US military has extremely tough and strict requirements for ammo, and many layers of Quality Control (QC) checks to ensure that contract ammo is up to spec. Obviously, as with any mass-produced item, some of the product is going to fail QC.

LC-produced ammo that passes all the QC checks is packaged up and sent out to fulfill military contracts. I call this "Grade 1" ammo, which means "the best." Note that ammo that is delivered to the military can no longer be surplussed as whole ammo, due to an Executive Order by Klinton in 1997, so as a rule, this ammo will never be available on the commercial market.

Ammo that fails QC in a minor way, such as not being completely moisture-sealed, but is otherwise good ammo is "Grade 2". That's what "XM193" is that Federal sells in 20-round boxes: Grade 2 ammo. The same with XM855.

Ammo that has more serious problems, such as severe dents, bent rounds, split necks, and so on, is "Grade 3" (or worse). Federal is selling this as XM193PD and XM855PD, and packs it loose in 500 round boxes. (For those who haven't been around long, loose-packed ammo is almost always Grade 3 or lower quality, no matter who you buy it from. If it was higher quality, it would have been boxed up and sold at full price!)

It is important to understand that batches of Grade 2 ammo may be made up of a mix of Grade 1 and Grade 2, and that Grade 3 ammo may have both Grade 1 and Grade 2 ammo mixed in. The grade is given based on the worst ammo in the lot.

XM193PD (Grade 3) is sold at a discount compared to the boxed XM193 (Grade 2), and real M193 is not available to the public (unless it was surplussed before 1997). Discounted prices on ammo generally mean the ammo is lower quality, especially when the same ammo is sold for two or more different prices, so this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Also note that the PD loads are clearly marked "For Practice Use Only", another indication that this is DEFINITELY NOT Grade 1 (or even Grade 2) ammo.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion you might have. For those who have purchased "PD" ammo, make sure you hand-sort it first, and cull out any bad rounds. Also, be prepared for a squib load or any other unusual behavior, and make sure you know what to do when and if something occurs.

Finally, do NOT use the PD ammo for anything "important", and especially not for duty or defensive use. This is bargain ammo that will give performance and reliability in proportion to its selling price. TANSTAAFL!


-Troy
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:50:05 PM EDT
PD stands for pull down, ie they are pulled off the Lake City line as defective.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:43:18 AM EDT
Poor DumbAss
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:33:58 AM EDT
One of the many have heard is "Practice and Demonstration". The real meaning of PD seems to be one of the worlds best kept secrets. Odd
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:37:09 AM EDT
My first thought was "Physical Defect".
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:49:27 AM EDT
I always put a lot of STOCK in an ammo review done by someone who DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT AMMO he is reviewing!



A new award has been made. THE FIVE TARD AWARD!!!!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:49:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By seahawkdodge:
My first thought was "Physical Defect".



That about the best possible way to describe it. Maybe it is something obscene like , Puckin Deformed
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:51:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By umc:

WMHM4 is right, nobody really knows what PD stands for but the box of it I have clearly states to use for practice only.




Apparently mikeinkc does!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:14:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mikeinkc:
PD stands for pull down, ie they are pulled off the Lake City line as defective.




This is what a Lake City employee told me.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:41:01 PM EDT
I just purchased a 1k rounds of this junk. Oh well, live (hopefully) and learn. Not too happy with some of the bad case dents. I'll be sorting this junk all night. I guess I will shoot all of this crap up on Friday as I don't want it taking up space in the house.

How do I post photos on here?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:04:18 PM EDT
I have had good luck with this stuff. Shot thousands of rounds and never saw one like those pictured. I guess I have been lucky.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:34:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By seahawkdodge:
My first thought was "Physical Defect".



How about...

PD = PROBABLY DANGEROUS

Rmpl
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