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Posted: 3/19/2006 12:49:23 AM EDT
Hello,

People lump the BH 55gr FMJ blue box in with XM193 and I'd like to know why. Obviously it is a similar weight bullet.Which of the two is better for a SHTF situation? The costs are pretty close, so why one over the other, especially if XM193 are "seconds?"

Second question: Is there an advantage to the 55gr FMJ over the Hornady 75gr TAP other than a lower price? Would you not rather have 1000 rounds of 75gr TAP as opposed to 55gr XM193 or similar?

thanks!
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:18:45 AM EDT
Black Hills 55gr is more accurate, but (I believe) doesn't have an M-193 spec bullet, plus the velocity is lower. Placement wise, BH beats XM193. But XM193 beats BH in velocity, therefore fragmentation range. In terms of lethality 75gr TAP or BH beats everything except maybe Mk262 ModX. XM193 and its equals in M193 spec have the 75gr rounds beat for having sealed primers and sealed bullets and price. In most cases I would prefer 75gr TAP or 75gr BH...

TS
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 4:13:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 4:14:20 AM EDT by WMHM4]
BH is very good ammo and like TigerStripe said it will be more accurate but I would rather use XM193 for SHTF. I'll take a good 5.56 everytime over a good .223.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 8:57:44 AM EDT
Is the 55gr FMJ better at armor and cover penetration than the 75gr TAP?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:00:13 AM EDT
About the same I think? if not I still would go 75gr
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:31:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ligament:
Hello,

People lump the BH 55gr FMJ blue box in with XM193 and I'd like to know why. Obviously it is a similar weight bullet.Which of the two is better for a SHTF situation? The costs are pretty close, so why one over the other, especially if XM193 are "seconds?"



Who are these people?

The difference is - BH does not have a sealed primer, bullet, and typically not crimped or not crimped to the degree M193 is. But the biggest difference is velocity. M193 needs to be able to maintain 3250fps out of a 20" barrel.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=273003

My results comparing M193 to BH 55gr... out of a 16" carbine:

Q3131A (2005)
3194
3198
3203
3176
319­1
AVG: 3192

Black Hills 55grFMJ
2997
3025
2966
2945
29­94
AVG: 2985


Black Hills is one of the slowest 55gr rounds I tested, only Wolf Russian steel case 55gr was slower. Since velocity is a factor in fragementation, this BH 55gr is not as desireable for SHTF engagements. That being said - since you need to maintain above 2700fps for reliable fragmentation, this still would be acceptable ammunition for close quarters enagements, which civilians would be more likely to encounter. All things being equal, I will take real M193, thanks.



Second question: Is there an advantage to the 55gr FMJ over the Hornady 75gr TAP other than a lower price? Would you not rather have 1000 rounds of 75gr TAP as opposed to 55gr XM193 or similar?


In most cases - yes. The TAP is just proven more effective in gel testing. Now - will it really make THAT much difference in your life and death situation? My guess is not. But there is nothing wrong with wanting the *best* ammunition for stopping a threat to you and your family. We do it for our handguns, why wouldn't we apply the same theory to our rifles?

That being said, having seen all the data out there, and acknowledging there are better rounds, including the 77 and 75gr TAP, I am very comfortable using M193 out of my 16" and 20" weapons for defense.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:32:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ligament:
Is the 55gr FMJ better at armor and cover penetration than the 75gr TAP?



That is a study I have not seen, and would really like to. At close ranges, since penetration is more dependent on velocity than bullet design, I am inclined to think M193 would be the better performer here.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:39:43 PM EDT
If you are using a normal sized rifle (20 inch or 16 inch) and want to use it for self defense, IE under 50 yards, it isn't gonna matter one bit as even the slower round will still be in the frag range.

I don't feel that accuracy is going to be a big issue as at these ranges all you need to do is hit in the upper chest region and you'll live to see the sun rise. Anything that will hold a 3 inch group at 100 yards will be more then adequate. Also, for self defense ammo, I don;t feel that you need a case that has a sealed primer and bullet. That is mainly for combat. Of course, I would take it if I could but I don;t feel that it's needed, at least where I live where it's mainly dry and no flooding will occur.

Why not get some of each and use what ever the case dictates.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 2:08:56 PM EDT
Is Black Hills Re-manufactured Ammo?

Frank
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 2:17:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 2:18:27 PM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By FrankAR15:
Is Black Hills Re-manufactured Ammo?

Frank



Blue box - Remanufactured. They use .mil and some commercial once fired brass.

Red box - All new components.


I would say the Blue box is immensely more popular.
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