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Posted: 3/14/2006 7:24:36 AM EDT
Would this ammunition be reliable for SHTF? Where can I buy it cheap?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:32:36 AM EDT
YES very accurate ! Great ammo!

AMMOMAN has the PP M193/Wolf
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:36:48 AM EDT
Seems to have some problems short stroking in some peoples 20" ARs.

Otherwise, great stuff.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:01:25 AM EDT
NO.

Mike
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:14:45 AM EDT
I'm going to run another battlepack thru my 16". If it goes as well as the first, Hell yeah! I'll buy it for TSHTF.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:20:47 AM EDT

NO.

Mike


Why? care to elaborate? or are you one of those irrational wolf haters?

I'm sure you understand that wolf is just an importer and this particular ammo is not the Russian stuff.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:30:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
NO.

Mike



+ 1 big time!!!

This stuff doesn't run in all AR formats. Shit! If you're going to stock SHTF ammo, you want it to work across the board.

I'm not even that thrilled about having it in my practice ammo pool.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:31:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

NO.

Mike


Why? care to elaborate? or are you one of those irrational wolf haters?

I'm sure you understand that wolf is just an importer and this particular ammo is not the Russian stuff.



Shit! I'd take my chances on the RUSSIAN stuff over this crap. He knows which ammo he is talking about.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:36:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 7:48:07 AM EDT by TigerStripe]
There are many different rounds out there that do not perform well in all AR platforms. Radway Green, Q3131A, XM193PD, XM855PDand S&B among others...

TS
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:36:41 AM EDT
Markm- I heven't used the new m193 wolf yet, I just haven't heard of any problems either and always get a bit suspicious when people just say 'yes' or 'no' with no explanation. Would you elaborate more as to the problems with it?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:17:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Markm- I heven't used the new m193 wolf yet, I just haven't heard of any problems either and always get a bit suspicious when people just say 'yes' or 'no' with no explanation. Would you elaborate more as to the problems with it?



You could start with the 15 page thread in the ammo forum for one.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:03:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Markm- I heven't used the new m193 wolf yet, I just haven't heard of any problems either and always get a bit suspicious when people just say 'yes' or 'no' with no explanation. Would you elaborate more as to the problems with it?



You might actually have to read the ammo forum.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:11:55 AM EDT
all right, all right.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:13:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

NO.

Mike


Why? care to elaborate? or are you one of those irrational wolf haters?

I'm sure you understand that wolf is just an importer and this particular ammo is not the Russian stuff.




As noted by markm above, I do know that the ammo is produced by Prvi Partizan.

This is a great thread here by FALARAK on it: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=270540, covers it very well IMO.

My answer is still NO, and markm hit the nail on the head as to why above.

Mike

ps - I don't hate Wolf ammo, (can't say I'm crazy about the odor) or this ammo above, if it'll run and shoot in your rifles then use it, I simply have too much money, time and pride tied up in my rifles to shoot second tier ammo in 'em and like it or not, the ammo asked about above ain't top tier ammo. I am not a spray and pray kindof shooter either, I tend to want one round on target, preferably from the farthest range possible, which requires a consistent accuracy this tier of ammo does not possess. The reliablity issues have already been noted.

My plinking rounds, which I stock and have all I'll ever need is Q3131A, my SHTF ammo that I stock is Black Hills 77grn SMK and 75grn. match HPBT, my accuracy ammo for long range is custom loaded 77grn. SMKs and yep it ain't cheap, but then I decided long ago, way before the 6.8 and 6.5 varieties came out that the heavier 223 rounds and 1/7 twist rifles will/would fill the bill for AR15 fodder in my book.

YMMV, and hope your as happy with your ammo choices as I am with mine.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:50:09 AM EDT
thanks for the clarification. Hey, if I had more cash I'd buy better ammo too but unfortunately I don't (yet).
For now I make do with wolf for plinking, but I'm looking forward to the new 75 gr wolf thats due out...it may make for a good accurate longer range round.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:41:15 AM EDT
JUST GOT BACK FROM THE RANGE 16 20 round mags of WOLF M193

WITOUT A SINGLE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES GOOD SHTF!!

UNLESS YOUR AR is JUNK or you cant maintain it??????

Well thats 24 mags for ME without a SINGLE PROBLEM

Im so lucky to have a Bushy Shorty and a LMT 14.5 that CAN SHOOT M193 SPEC AMMO

WANT TO BET MONEY I CAN SHOT 8 mags ETC!! without a problem?? Meet me at the RANGE TUCKERS GRADE OFF 75 NEAR PUNTA GORDA FL!!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:46:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 11:48:01 AM EDT by FMJ]
I COULD FIRE 99999999999999999999999999999 ROUNDS!! NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the KEY BOARD EXPERTS

AND THE WILL BASH IT FOR ITS NAME

When they have never even shot it! PLZZZ

GUY BESIDE ME had a A1 colt 20 incher NO TROUBLE but I only gave him 20 rounds?

I dont like to give out good ammo!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:50:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 11:56:47 AM EDT by blackeye]

Originally Posted By FMJ:
I COULD FIRE 99999999999999999999999999999 ROUNDS!! NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the KEY BOARD EXPERTS

AND THE WILL BASH IT FOR ITS NAME

When they have never even shot it! PLZZZ

GUY BESIDE ME had a A1 colt 20 incher NO TROUBLE but I only gave him 20 rounds?

I dont like to give out good ammo!




I have no dog in this fight but Dude.......................your posts are annoying!

Do you always act like this or do you save it up for the internet!!! (new sig line)

Edited to add: How the hell does the sig line thing work?

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:59:43 AM EDT
if it works in your rifle yes use it...

it really is that simple

i have a ton of wwb stashed

it works for me

better to have alot of ammo that works than none at all
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:17:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ops144:
if it works in your rifle yes use it...

it really is that simple

i have a ton of wwb stashed

it works for me

better to have alot of ammo that works than none at all



I think this about sums it up!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:47:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
GUY BESIDE ME had a A1 colt 20 incher NO TROUBLE but I only gave him 20 rounds?



The first 20 or so rounds I ran thru my 20incher worked. After I got into the second and third mags, it got progressively worse.

At the end, It would only eject the spent round, and the bolt didn't travel far enough back to strip off another round. CLICK on an empty chamber EVERY TIME!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:50:32 PM EDT
BLACK EYE great AKA
My post are annoying? and yours aint right!

Is It because you dont like to see good results?

I have just rack grade AR15`S and have no troulbel!

Thats must be why you are so upset about my reply?

What I find annoying are FALSE CLIAMS
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:03:28 PM EDT
BLACK HILLS 77 did give me trouble out of my LMT today?

When I ejected a round to see if the Bullet is scratch up it would FREEZE UP every time?

But LCM855,Santa Barbra SS109/WolfM193 S&BSS109 work fine and DIDNT freeze the Carrier up?

I took alot of effort to eject the BH 77 Blue Box by hand!

racking the chargehandle to load and then try to eject the 77grBH Would FREEZE UP?

NOW IM GOING TO CLIAM BLACK HILLS NO GOOD FOR AR15`S?? NO

But this does just bug the shit out of me? Always ran fine with Black hills 77 or M855/M193 ?

BTW BH blue box 75 went well also!

I
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:07:23 PM EDT
I have no idea what you just said.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:09:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 1:13:16 PM EDT by blackeye]

Originally Posted By FMJ:
BLACK EYE great AKA
My post are annoying? and yours aint right!

Is It because you dont like to see good results?

I have just rack grade AR15`S and have no troulbel!

Thats must be why you are so upset about my reply?

What I find annoying are FALSE CLIAMS




I'll repeat myself due to your inablility to comprehend what you read. Your grammar sucks too!

I have no dog in this fight.

I have several thousand rounds of regular Wolf put back for practice. So I am not a Wolf basher by any means. My stockpile of M193 type rounds and other specialty rounds is enough to last me for as long as I am able to shoot. So I really could careless about any new M193 type round.

If the Wolf M193 was reliable in all weapons it wouldn't have surprised me at all. But its not!

The only person whining about the results that have been posted in this forum, is you.


Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:38:17 PM EDT
if you dont care then why are you here?

crying about me!

Grow up or get laid buddy!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:41:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
I have no idea what you just said.



+
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:45:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
if you dont care then why are you here?

crying about me!

Grow up or get laid buddy!



Sometimes the kindest thing you can do for a person is to help them realize their faults. That way they can grow as a human being and not be shunned by society. I am just here to help FMJ.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:49:12 PM EDT
My spelling is Bad you are right !!

I SPENT more time in the woods/Range than in the class room being a teachers pet?

And my girl friend did most all my home work!

But I never ever cut someone down to make myself feel better??
Or result in NAME CALLING!!

SORRY YOU CANT HANDLE MY GREAT RESULTS!

CALL ME MAKE FUN OF ME HAVE WHAT YOU WILL!

I KNOW YOUR KIND WELL! spend more time on the key board than rangeJUST LIKE FALARAK

FALARAK DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING??

BOLT Carrier freeze up when I charge a round of Black Hills 77 only! ( works with any other type )

TAKES ALOT OF FORCE TO EJECT BY HAND!!

HOWEVER IT WILL FEED AND EJECT 77 black hills when fireing!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:03:20 PM EDT
why is it so hard for you to understand that what works well for you may not work well for others? It's no reason to get all updet about it and start throwing around exclamation points and question marks at innocent bystanders......

I'll be the first to admit it- I shoot even the crappy russian wolf (for plinking) but I know it DOES cause other peoples weapons to short stroke. Just because it works for me does not mean it works for everyone.
So let me give you an example of what you could have said to not piss so many people off:
"it works for me very well, and I would not hesitate to use it if the SHTF"
However, how can you expect people like markm and FALARAK to use it if it doesn't function for THEM?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:13:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
My spelling is Bad you are right !!

I SPENT more time in the woods/Range than in the class room being a teachers pet?

And my girl friend did most all my home work!

But I never ever cut someone down to make myself feel better??
Or result in NAME CALLING!!

SORRY YOU CANT HANDLE MY GREAT RESULTS!

CALL ME MAKE FUN OF ME HAVE WHAT YOU WILL!

I KNOW YOUR KIND WELL! spend more time on the key board than rangeJUST LIKE FALARAK

FALARAK DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING??

BOLT Carrier freeze up when I charge a round of Black Hills 77 only! ( works with any other type )

TAKES ALOT OF FORCE TO EJECT BY HAND!!

HOWEVER IT WILL FEED AND EJECT 77 black hills when fireing!




Breath buddy........your gonna pass out typing these long posts.

Apparently my communications skills aren't what they use to be. So I will speak in a language you can understand.

<­BR>


DUDE..............YOU ARE SO FUCKED UP!!!


Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:34:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 2:35:51 PM EDT by BIGDUKESIX]




Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:43:27 PM EDT
Okay you guys are right 24mags of wolf M193 out of my bushmaster MEANS ITS NO GOOD AMMO
YOU WIN!! ITS BAD STUFF !!!

All wolf is crap I get it

and if 3 or 5 guys had touble with it it must be BAD ammo PERIOD


IM SORRY I HAD OUTSTANDING RESULTS!

I should of listen when I heard M16 jam in the war?

I should of bought a AK47!

How dare bushmaster make my rifle shoot WOLF M193

I wish it would jam every time with wolf m193 that way I could be like you guys and BASH it
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:43:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
My spelling is Bad you are right !!

I SPENT more time in the woods/Range than in the class room being a teachers pet?

And my girl friend did most all my home work!

But I never ever cut someone down to make myself feel better??
Or result in NAME CALLING!!

SORRY YOU CANT HANDLE MY GREAT RESULTS!

CALL ME MAKE FUN OF ME HAVE WHAT YOU WILL!

I KNOW YOUR KIND WELL! spend more time on the key board than rangeJUST LIKE FALARAK

FALARAK DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING??

BOLT Carrier freeze up when I charge a round of Black Hills 77 only! ( works with any other type )

TAKES ALOT OF FORCE TO EJECT BY HAND!!

HOWEVER IT WILL FEED AND EJECT 77 black hills when fireing!




will... you... shut... up... argh...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:46:12 PM EDT
But I still dont resort to name calling and cut downs like BLACKEYE who has never even used it or even cares as he stated
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:00:47 PM EDT

why is it so hard for you to understand that what works well for you may not work well for others?

Maybe you should read that again. Won't you admit that it may not work for everyone?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:05:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
But I still dont resort to name calling and cut downs like BLACKEYE who has never even used it or even cares as he stated



I just call them like I see them, FMJ.

How about we get back to the subject of the thread, shall we?

I don't need anymore M193 type ammo. So I decided to let others try it out before I purchased any. From the results that have been posted. It is a good first try by Prvi-Partizan(Wolf is just the exporter of this ammo not the manufacturer). Hopefully, consumers have reported to Prvi-Partizan (PP) that it is not functioning in 20" barreled AR's. If PP's reputation is as good as it is supposed to be. They will waste no time in correcting this problem.

Until Wolf M193 is getting the same satisfaction rating in http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=169729 as the Federal and Winchester 5.56 offerings. You are pretty much a fool to bet your life on this untested ammunition.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:16:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 3:48:05 PM EDT by FMJ]
YES I ADMITT IT DONT WORK FOR OTHERS!!!

I WAS JUST LUCKY TO GET A WIERD BUSHMASTER THAT LIKES EVERYTHING ?

I still wish I had bad results so everyone would like me?

I SHOULD OF NEVER SAID I WOULD USE IT FOR SHTF!

I wonder why my shorty loves this stuff?

I wonder why all military spec rifles cant shoot the same round? thats what is real strange? it would seem if it work in 20 it would work in all?

also sorry about the rant but I had it in my head since several others have shot 500rds without a single problem it was good to go? my bad!

Im sorry someone or 3 had trouble with there 20 inchers and took it as Bull shit!

BTW I have 1000rds of Q3131A some Q3131 and some XM193 I bought in 2001! and Black hills 75gr thats my FIRST PICK BLACKEYE
also I woulnt feel bad if I was caught with Wolf/PP M193 since it has proven itself in MY SHORTY

Give me a braek I bought my very first rifle in the 80`S still learning!

I ask FOREST about the 75 Black Hills awhile back I suppose its no good Right??
I USE OLD COLT 20 rounders with metal followers for ShTF


Now you may have the last word on this matter! you dont care anyway who has great results




Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

why is it so hard for you to understand that what works well for you may not work well for others?

Maybe you should read that again. Won't you admit that it may not work for everyone?

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:

24 mags is not enough to prove itself in my shorty? I will try 87 mags next time



Out of 750 responses for Federal XM193 in the Ammunition Review and Reference tacked thread. How many rounds do you think those 750 people have shot? Even if those people only shot 100rds each, that would come out to 75,000 rounds tested.

And your going to bet your life on 24 X 30rdmags = 720 rounds?

Has anybody even done any fragmentation testing in gel on Wolf M193 yet?





<­BR>
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:16:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:

I ask FOREST about the 75 Black Hills awhile back I suppose its no good Right??




Excellent choice in your first line ammo IMHO. It is my choice also.

For the record, I hope Wolf M193 gets the problems worked out and becomes a reliable alternative to XM193 and Q3131. But it is way too early to be claiming it as SHTF ammo.



Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:25:25 PM EDT
TARD FIGHT!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:40:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:49:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/?mid=5131177



Now that is some funny shit. Hopefully markm will see this.

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:52:33 AM EDT
And they call me immature.... (sigh) Now I really confused this seems to argue againist eveloution and intelligent design..... Maybe we are just the worst comsic joke ever played... yeah thats probally it... hahaha.. ah f*** it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:42:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/?mid=5131177



OH SNAP! I finally had the patience to let it load! I thought it was a dead link the first time I clicked on it!

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:01:50 AM EDT
I get the mental picture of some kid tied to a jungle gym wearing a hockey helmet with chocolate running down the corners of his mouth screaming "Wolf werkt for ME!!!!!".
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 10:38:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

NO.

Mike


Why? care to elaborate? or are you one of those irrational wolf haters?

I'm sure you understand that wolf is just an importer and this particular ammo is not the Russian stuff.




As noted by markm above, I do know that the ammo is produced by Prvi Partizan.

This is a great thread here by FALARAK on it: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=270540, covers it very well IMO.

My answer is still NO, and markm hit the nail on the head as to why above.

Mike

ps - I don't hate Wolf ammo, (can't say I'm crazy about the odor) or this ammo above, if it'll run and shoot in your rifles then use it, I simply have too much money, time and pride tied up in my rifles to shoot second tier ammo in 'em and like it or not, the ammo asked about above ain't top tier ammo. I am not a spray and pray kindof shooter either, I tend to want one round on target, preferably from the farthest range possible, which requires a consistent accuracy this tier of ammo does not possess. The reliablity issues have already been noted.

My plinking rounds, which I stock and have all I'll ever need is Q3131A, my SHTF ammo that I stock is Black Hills 77grn SMK and 75grn. match HPBT, my accuracy ammo for long range is custom loaded 77grn. SMKs and yep it ain't cheap, but then I decided long ago, way before the 6.8 and 6.5 varieties came out that the heavier 223 rounds and 1/7 twist rifles will/would fill the bill for AR15 fodder in my book.

YMMV, and hope your as happy with your ammo choices as I am with mine.



*cough* *cough*

Gun snob.

*cough*
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 10:43:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 10:43:38 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By dajini:
*cough* *cough*

Gun snob.

*cough*



Great post. Did you have anything substantial to add or just trying to up your post count with noise?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:55:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
www.careerbuilder.com/monk-e-mail/?mid=5131177





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