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Posted: 3/2/2006 11:39:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 11:56:37 PM EDT by 5pins]
They’re in trouble now!

This is a link to the story.
www.spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=118901
Bullet maker scrutinized
Animal rights group criticizes company for testing on live hogs


Bill Morlin
Staff writer
March 1, 2006

The Spokane County prosecutor's office is reviewing a graphic video forwarded by a national animal rights organization showing 10 hogs being killed during a bullet-testing demonstration.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, an advocacy group known as PETA, claims the video, now on the organization's Web site, shows "cruel treatment of 10 pigs, resulting in the pain, suffering and deaths of the animals, in complete disregard of Washington law, for the sole purpose of commercial gain."


It is unclear from the video and public records whether the hog killings occurred in Spokane County, as PETA contends, or at a farm in Arkansas as the bullet company, Le Mas Ltd., maintains.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture fined the bullet company $2,750 last year for "physical abuse of hogs while conducting research," but its settlement agreement doesn't specify where the violations occurred.

The video, at one point, shows an unidentified Spokane Police Department officer examining a bulletproof vest that had been shot with a Le Mas bullet, but there's nothing suggesting the officer was present for the hog killings.

Stan Bulmer, the bullet company's president of marketing who lives in Spokane, said on Friday the video was leaked to PETA by "people involved in the government's ballistic testing and procurement channels who don't want to see our new breakthrough armor-piercing technology succeed."

The company, based in Little Rock, Ark., has used private funds to develop and patent a "blended metal technology" bullet that will penetrate body armor but not pass through the first tissue it strikes, Bulmer said.

Using live hogs, as opposed to anesthetized animals, was essential in order to study the immobilizing effects of the new bullets and follow-up necropsies on the animals, the company executive said.

"This wasn't just a bunch of guys getting together to shoot hogs," Bulmer said. "This was scientific testing."

PETA attorney Lori Kettler of Norfolk, Va., formally asked Spokane County Prosecutor Steve Tucker in August to file felony animal-cruelty charges against the bullet company; its two officers, Bulmer and John Hamilton of Little Rock; and Gibby Media Group of Spokane.

The video "promotes sales of a bullet designed to inflict such serious injury that it is marketed only to the U.S. military and law enforcement agencies for use in urban and land warfare," Kettler said in her letter.

PETA believes prosecution is "particularly deserving" because those responsible used live, fully conscious pigs instead of body armor or ballistic gelatin, and those shooting the hogs "failed to take any steps to minimize the pain and suffering inflicted on the animals," Kettler said.

"To be rendered meaningful and effective, Washington's cruelty-to-animals statute must be applied strictly to all persons who violate the law, include those who do so in order to 'better' advertise a product," the PETA attorney said.

Tucker assigned the matter to Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Brian O'Brien, who said Friday he is reviewing the video and accompanying material supplied by PETA.

The video has not been forwarded to any law enforcement agency for investigation at this point, he said.

"We'll give it a fair look before deciding what kind of investigation, if any, should be done," O'Brien said.

Holly Mattern, a spokeswoman for PETA, said that organization now believes the bullet testing and the killing of the pigs occurred in Spokane County.

Lon Gibby, president of the Spokane-based video firm, said his firm didn't tape the killings but did edit video brought to the company by a client and produced on a master DVD. Gibby said he didn't know where the filming occurred.

"I was aware we handled this edit, and it seemed like a very legitimate project, with ties to law enforcement and the military," Gibby said. "I never had any concerns that what they were doing might be breaking the law."

Bulmer, the bullet company's president of sales and marketing who lives in Spokane, said he was present during the testing and that it occurred at a private farm in Arkansas. He wouldn't provide further specifics.

The video scene showing the Spokane Police Department patch came from separate filming in Spokane County of Le Mas bullets being fired into a Kevlar bulletproof vest, Bulmer said.

Before levying its $2,750 fine against Le Mas last year, the Department of Agriculture concluded the bullet company violated the Animal Welfare Act and associated federal regulations by failing to register with the USDA as an animal research facility.

Bulmer said that was a "mere technicality the company didn't know about. We've conducted live-animal tests since then."

The man who shot the hogs was a "licensed farmer" who test-fired the new Le Mas bullets and existing "jacketed hollow-point" bullets used by most law enforcement agencies. Two medical doctors and a veterinarian were present for follow-up necropsies, he said.

"There's no law against shooting farm-husbandry animals," the bullet company executive said. "We gave the meat to poor, hungry migrant families."


This is a link to the pig shooting video on PETA,s sight.
stopanimaltests.com/f-lemasPigs.asp
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:48:26 PM EDT
Looks like the SpokesmanReview.com website requires paid registration if you're not a subscriber.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:57:37 PM EDT
I put a copy of the story.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:35:32 AM EDT

"This wasn't just a bunch of guys getting together to shoot hogs," Bulmer said. "This was scientific testing."


hock.gif


"There's no law against shooting farm-husbandry animals," the bullet company executive said.


Which is it then, Stan?! Are you farming or conducting scientific research? This must be a communication mistake, right?


"mere technicality the company didn't know about. We've conducted live-animal tests since then."


Er, as opposed to the recent thread where Mr. Bulmer stated there was a specific rationale for conducting the tests as they did... hought

The man who shot the hogs was a "licensed farmer"


Wow. More new information that conveniently pops up when Mr. Bulmer is cornered.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:08:41 AM EDT
I wonder if Stan is going to let a dedicated secondary orifice accomplish primary ejaculate retention.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:52:56 AM EDT
Where can I get one a them farmer licenses, Stan?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:52:38 AM EDT
Did you see the blood loss from the .45! Dayum! It poured out!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:49:27 AM EDT
I love shooting HOG and about anything you can eat!
I couldnt wait until butcher Day came!
it was better than getting B-day presents
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:54:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:36:52 AM EDT
man, people on ar15.com sideing with PETA???

WTF???

I can't stand PETA and would never have thought that I would see talk like this on this site.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:49:01 AM EDT
They should do their testing in FL. In FL wild pigs on private property are considered property.

Why is this thread in the Ammo forum?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:49:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colt100:
man, people on ar15.com sideing with PETA???

WTF???

I can't stand PETA and would never have thought that I would see talk like this on this site.



Did you even read the thread?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:03:04 AM EDT
Cause they were Testing NEW (Armour Piercing) Ammo.

As far as anybody should be concerned PETA is a TERRORIST Organization and highly hypocritical, money making ploy that caring people get sucked into.

Unlike your Local ARL who cares for those lost/unwanted dogs and cats. PETA is bad no matter what they are into.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:06:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colt100:
man, people on ar15.com sideing with PETA???

WTF???

I can't stand PETA and would never have thought that I would see talk like this on this site.



Because Stan Bulmer is a step above Todd Bailey as far as pompous self-promoting windbags go. At least Todd isn't a conspiracy nuthead.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:14:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 6:16:22 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By colt100:
man, people on ar15.com sideing with PETA???

WTF???

I can't stand PETA and would never have thought that I would see talk like this on this site.



Because Stan Bulmer is a step above Todd Bailey as far as pompous self-promoting windbags go. At least Todd isn't a conspiracy nuthead.




See - that's it. Som of you guys act like total jackasses.... and support PETA, and their attitudes - JUST BECAUSE you think Stan and LeMas is asswipe.

Is he an asswipe? Sure looks like it. Does that mean all of a sudden you are gonna cry about killing some pigs.... and hope he "gets what is coming to him" ?

My, how quickly some of you compromise your "deep seated" beliefs in order to crucify someone you dont like. The enemy, of your enemy, is NOT your friend.

I dont give two shits about those hogs, or how he killed them. They are dumb animals.... and if he wants to test bullets like that, fine by me. Whether he is a complete asswipe or not, has nothing to do with this story.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:54:21 AM EDT
It's not so much supporting PETA as not knowing which one to root for.

Imagine Bill and Hillary having a spat. You'd sit back and watch the fun.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:04:54 AM EDT
The important part of this story is not that LeMas got the attention of PETA, but that what they were doing in that video was illegal.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:38:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
but that what they were doing in that video was might have been illegal.



Fixed it for you.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:19:58 PM EDT
I'd write PETA a big, fat check if they could find a way to lock up that lunatic
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
I'd write PETA a big, fat check if they could find a way to lock up that lunatic



Says a lot right there.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:53:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By colt100:
man, people on ar15.com sideing with PETA???

WTF???

I can't stand PETA and would never have thought that I would see talk like this on this site.



Because Stan Bulmer is a step above Todd Bailey as far as pompous self-promoting windbags go. At least Todd isn't a conspiracy nuthead.




See - that's it. Som of you guys act like total jackasses.... and support PETA, and their attitudes - JUST BECAUSE you think Stan and LeMas is asswipe.

Is he an asswipe? Sure looks like it. Does that mean all of a sudden you are gonna cry about killing some pigs.... and hope he "gets what is coming to him" ?

My, how quickly some of you compromise your "deep seated" beliefs in order to crucify someone you dont like. The enemy, of your enemy, is NOT your friend.

I dont give two shits about those hogs, or how he killed them. They are dumb animals.... and if he wants to test bullets like that, fine by me. Whether he is a complete asswipe or not, has nothing to do with this story.





Making fun of Stan for coming to the attention of PETA is not supporting PETA. I would have laughed just as hard if it were the ACLU, NAACP, NAMBLA, or even a .gov agency.

I have no love for PETA, but there are times I appreciate them to an extent, in the same manner that I appreciate the thug that offed Dahlmer in prison, or the lightning bolt that I pray would hit Michael Moore.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:37:23 PM EDT
I'm just hoping the PETA pusses will offer to let the "bullet maker" use their brainless bodies instead of an intellegent animal like a hog. Come on PETA!!! Grow a few!!!!!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:15:33 PM EDT
Southpark PETA episode flashback ! oh noooooo!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:05:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 9:06:16 PM EDT by uglygun]
Goto peta to see the video?


Probably the only way to see LMT advertising hype without being some super secret squirrel with top secret clearance to see the videos.

link left cold,

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=pig_bullet&Player=wm&speed=_med
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:59:02 PM EDT
I'm glad those of you advocating no regulations of live-animal testing do not belong to the scientific community.

This has nothing to do with slapping PETA bumper stickers all over the place. It has everything to do with ethical practices. If you don't understand, then don't quit your day job.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:35:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:
I'm glad those of you advocating no regulations of live-animal testing do not belong to the scientific community.

This has nothing to do with slapping PETA bumper stickers all over the place. It has everything to do with ethical practices. If you don't understand, then don't quit your day job.



Nothing PETA does is what I call truly ethical.
Their "practices" are ethically suspect.
They support bombings, harrassment, vandelism. Comport with known terrorists from ALF and ELF.
Ethical my ass. They should be considered a terrorist organization.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 6:05:53 AM EDT
Ok I watched the video. They made bacon. so what. pigs are slaughtered everyday around the world. this should be a big non-story. SHAME SHAME SHAME to the memebers that agreed with peta.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 10:29:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 10:29:29 AM EDT by leakycow]

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By leakycow:
I'm glad those of you advocating no regulations of live-animal testing do not belong to the scientific community.

This has nothing to do with slapping PETA bumper stickers all over the place. It has everything to do with ethical practices. If you don't understand, then don't quit your day job.



Nothing PETA does is what I call truly ethical.
Their "practices" are ethically suspect.
They support bombings, harrassment, vandelism. Comport with known terrorists from ALF and ELF.
Ethical my ass. They should be considered a terrorist organization.



Again, I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with your stance on PETA. That's not the issue here. The issue is that Bulmer/LeMas ignored government regulations for live-animal testing. His ignorant claims and inhumane methodologies spit on valid science.

(I reiterate, if you don't find these tests inhumane, fine by me...just know that you're in disagreement with ethical principles established by the scientific community--your ethics are your own)

I don't really care who the whistle blower is, people who do wrong need to own up to it.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 4:25:02 PM EDT
This is thread is stupid.

Falarak makes some good points here.


Everyone who's a PETA supporter......go find a liberal gunsite to support.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:41:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
This is thread is stupid.

Falarak makes some good points here.


Everyone who's a PETA supporter......go find a liberal gunsite to support.



Yeah, you said that before...in the OTHER thread.

When you and Falarak get together to start up Falarakcoltrifle's Awesome Ammo Inc., just do a little research before you go a-shootin' piggies, k?

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:06:36 PM EDT
Being an animal lover, it's hard for me to watch videos like this regardless of what kind of animal. Sure, they made bacon, however, in slaughterhouses, at least there is a concerted effort to minimize suffering of the animal, it's "light switch to off position", so to speak. Perhaps they should reserve this kind of testing for rapists and murderers.

Perhaps someone could clarify the benefits of live animal ballistics testing vs. killing the animal humanely "on site" and then immediately testing on the carcass? The only difference would be blood flow, but I believe in todays scientific world, that could be calculated upon examination of the wound channels.

I certainly dislike PETA and their methods, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with this activity. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:27:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kcobean:
Being an animal lover, it's hard for me to watch videos like this regardless of what kind of animal. Sure, they made bacon, however, in slaughterhouses, at least there is a concerted effort to minimize suffering of the animal, it's "light switch to off position", so to speak. Perhaps they should reserve this kind of testing for rapists and murderers.

Perhaps someone could clarify the benefits of live animal ballistics testing vs. killing the animal humanely "on site" and then immediately testing on the carcass? The only difference would be blood flow, but I believe in todays scientific world, that could be calculated upon examination of the wound channels.

I certainly dislike PETA and their methods, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with this activity. Just my opinion.





You've never been in a real slaughter house have you? They aren't nice and friendly to the animals that they slaughter. Slaughter houses look barbaric compared to the video that they are irritated with.



Originally posted by leakycow
Yeah, you said that before...in the OTHER thread.

When you and Falarak get together to start up Falarakcoltrifle's Awesome Ammo Inc., just do a little research before you go a-shootin' piggies, k?




If I ever decide to test ammo on any animal I'm going to do it without concern for anything that PETA or the PETA lovers on this site think.


Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:21:30 AM EDT
I wish we could just stop testing on animals to see what might happen to humans, and use the real thing.

Lots of humans deserve this a lot more than the animals, and you would get real results.




A fine example of a human that would yield much better results than that pig.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443402
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:44:59 AM EDT
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that it was NOT PETA that fined LeMas for conduncting illegal animal research?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:13:08 AM EDT
anyone know knows anything about research protocols will tell you that stans little piggy shoot was unehtical, unscientific and yeilded NO useable information. he placed his shots not to kill but to wound. i believe in the other thread stan said the first shots were in the hind quarter. teathering a pig and shooting a pig in the hind quarter to intentionally wound it without killing it is animal cruelty and illegal in most states. if he was in GA stan would have commited a crime on video tape
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:14:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that it was NOT PETA that fined LeMas for conduncting illegal animal research?



It isnt hard at all. And I dont think that anyone here thinks that. It is just.... the support of PETA, and groups like it.... when they attack someone you dont like, that is the problem.

Let me quote for you, a perfect example of the fucked up logic being applied here, simply because someone has a problem with the way they shot some pigs:


Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
I'd write PETA a big, fat check if they could find a way to lock up that lunatic



Any questions?



Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:38:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 8:40:17 AM EDT by ColtRifle]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that it was NOT PETA that fined LeMas for conduncting illegal animal research?



It isnt hard at all. And I dont think that anyone here thinks that. It is just.... the support of PETA, and groups like it.... when they attack someone you dont like, that is the problem.

Let me quote for you, a perfect example of the fucked up logic being applied here, simply because someone has a problem with the way they shot some pigs:


Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
I'd write PETA a big, fat check if they could find a way to lock up that lunatic



Any questions?







Well said.


When are we going to start that "Falarakcoltrifle's Awesome Ammo Inc" company?? I can probably provide the pigs
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:17:59 AM EDT
How do you know that I don't support PETA in general, outside of this one incident?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:26:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
How do you know that I don't support PETA in general, outside of this one incident?




The quote below pretty much answers that question.




Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
I'd write PETA a big, fat check if they could find a way to lock up that lunatic

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:36:00 PM EDT
Just because it's PETA doesn't mean that they are wrong about this.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:48:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
anyone know knows anything about research protocols will tell you that stans little piggy shoot was unehtical, unscientific and yeilded NO useable information. he placed his shots not to kill but to wound.



AMEN! I've been present at the butchering of more than one hog, and while it is very graphic, it was not like this crap at all. These people are obviously douche bags shooting hogs like this for a promotional video. There was nothing humane about this.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:01:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColtRifle:

The quote below pretty much answers that question.





actually, it doesn't at all. and I wasn't talking to you.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:34:35 PM EDT
How does PETA choose what theyre going to protest next? Hit the bong and play hackysack next to a bond fire?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:58:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
How do you know that I don't support PETA in general, outside of this one incident?



Why would that make any difference? If you DID support PETA in general.... outside this incident, that would STILL say a lot about YOU. But let's not make this personal.... mmmmmkay?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:08:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
How do you know that I don't support PETA in general, outside of this one incident?



Why would that make any difference? If you DID support PETA in general.... outside this incident, that would STILL say a lot about YOU. But let's not make this personal.... mmmmmkay?




your point was that not supporting PETA except for this one incident is fucked up and you used me an an example. and I was pointing out that you're completely ignorant of whether I already am a member of PETA or not. I guess it's not really important because I doubt that you really care what I think about it and I know I don't give two shits what you think.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:13:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
I'd write PETA a big, fat check if they could find a way to lock up that lunatic



Says a lot right there.



Yes it does.
We don't like that snake oil salesman! Let's sell his ass out to PETA!
Some people...
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:59:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 5:04:44 PM EDT by leakycow]
Purely hypothetical here:

1. Diane Feinstein has incontrovertible evidence that Michael Jackson touches little kids.
2. Diane blows the whistle, Michael gets in big big trouble.
3. You bitch that Michael's in trouble because you can't stand Feinstein.
eta: 4. You take the next illogical step in proclaiming those who decry Michael's actions as people who are gun-grabbin' Feinstein worshippers.

Does this metaphor ring ANY bells here, or are some of your skulls too damned thick?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:06:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 5:07:27 PM EDT by ColtRifle]

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
How do you know that I don't support PETA in general, outside of this one incident?



Why would that make any difference? If you DID support PETA in general.... outside this incident, that would STILL say a lot about YOU. But let's not make this personal.... mmmmmkay?




your point was that not supporting PETA except for this one incident is fucked up and you used me an an example. and I was pointing out that you're completely ignorant of whether I already am a member of PETA or not. I guess it's not really important because I doubt that you really care what I think about it and I know I don't give two shits what you think.




If you didn't give two shits you wouldn't respond!!

Here's one for you. It's not a pig but that's the best I can do at the moment!!
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:18:57 PM EDT
Peta is after Lemans ? what do they have against racing ? Also peta is a crap organization i read the crap they had out about vegatarians and how you should save chickens because they are almost as smart as dogs. ever seen a chicken catch a frisbee ? or sniff out bombs ? maybe they just need more training ?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:11:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 9:47:41 PM EDT by yekimak]

Originally Posted By leakycow:
Purely hypothetical here:

1. Diane Feinstein has incontrovertible evidence that Michael Jackson touches little kids.
2. Diane blows the whistle, Michael gets in big big trouble.
3. You bitch that Michael's in trouble because you can't stand Feinstein.
eta: 4. You take the next illogical step in proclaiming those who decry Michael's actions as people who are gun-grabbin' Feinstein worshippers.

Does this metaphor ring ANY bells here, or are some of your skulls too damned thick?



OR....You are a die hard Chevy Lover. Mikey Moore is hit by a truck, but it happens to be a Ford. Saying "YaaY" won't mean you like Fords.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:29:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
anyone know knows anything about research protocols will tell you that stans little piggy shoot was unehtical, unscientific and yeilded NO useable information. he placed his shots not to kill but to wound. i believe in the other thread stan said the first shots were in the hind quarter. teathering a pig and shooting a pig in the hind quarter to intentionally wound it without killing it is animal cruelty and illegal in most states. if he was in GA stan would have commited a crime on video tape



DvlDog.
Once again you have no clue what you are talking about. You have amazing consistancy though.
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