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Posted: 2/19/2006 11:18:18 PM EDT
I was looking at buying some bulk ammo for possible emegencies in the future. Im Looking at wolf Since thats all I can afford should I get
1. Hollow point
2. Soft point lead
2. Full metal Jacket
3. Full metal jacket Boat tail

What grain 55 grain or 62 grain?

Rifle is a Olympic Arms Plinker plus
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:51:18 AM EDT
no
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:56:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 12:57:53 AM EDT by Mr45auto]
Wolf and Olympic arms. Not exactly a match made in heaven.\

My old Oly would choke on wolf. I'd have to use a cleaning rod to get the stuck cases out of the chamber.

Wolf is underpowered and inconsistant. It's plinker ammo.

Buy a couple hundred rounds of Q3131 every few months and put it away.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:05:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Wolf and Olympic arms. Not exactly a match made in heaven.\

My old Oly would choke on wolf. I'd have to use a cleaning rod to get the stuck cases out of the chamber.

Wolf is underpowered and inconsistant. It's plinker ammo.

Buy a couple hundred rounds of Q3131 every few months and put it away.



+1 bad ammo and SHTF is another not so good combo
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:25:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 7:32:51 AM EDT by BIGDUKESIX]
THe only Wolf I would even think of buying for a emergency is the new 5.56 loads that they are comming out with. But I have a nice size stash of Q3131A so it will not be my problem I also think that You should just buy some high quality ammo here and there as finnances allow.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:27:57 AM EDT
Order some Georgia Arms Canned Heat. It may not be sealed, but it is cheap, burns clean, LC brass, is accurate and has more power than Wolf. Wolf is plinking/blasting ammo. I would not trust my life on it.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:28:35 AM EDT
Wolf for SHIF
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:34:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:48:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 7:52:11 AM EDT by freeflow]
I f you go to Olympic Arms web site they have a BIG LIST of rounds that are not to be used aBIG list.
AND

Notice: Olympic Arms no longer accepts AmericanExpress.

Just run your Oly upper in the red for all she has. And then get a RRA.

www.olyarms.com/?page=ammowarning

Information About Types Of Ammunition


This warning comes based on an increased volume of customer calls regarding feeding and ejection malfunctions of AR-15 style rifles. Further investigation of these situations came to prove that the vast majority of these malfunctions were based on ammunition, and not the firearm itself. Following is some of the information that have compiled based on this investigation.

Lacquer Coated Ammo
If you plan on using lacquer-coated ammo in your Olympic Arms AR-15, please be aware of the following. We have received many recent phone calls, as well as some rifles sent in for repair, complaining about reliability problems in their Oly Arms AR's. The first question usually asked is, "What ammunition are you using?" The answers to the question, as well as seeing the chambers of the rifles that were sent in are showing us that lacquer coated ammo is clogging the chambers badly.

What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber. Under continuous fire, this is usually not noticed, but once you stop, the barrel cools, the lacquer sets and you now cannot chamber and/or properly extract your ammunition. You will experience this in AR-15's much more frequently than other rifles such as the SKS and AK/MAC variants. In most cases the 7.62x39 rifles have chambers cut to the large end of the safety spectrum so that feeding and reliability is uncompromised by the type of ammunition or the consistency of the case dimensions. AR style rifles, and especially those from Oly Arms will have tighter chambers so that you can experience a greater level of accuracy that these rifles are capable of performing. Olympic chambers specifically are cut to 5.56 NATO specs via Clymer reamers in all button rifled barrels, and minimum SAAMI spec .223 Remington on all SUM Ultramatch barrels. Our rifles will provide superior accuracy, partly based on that fact.

Our recommendations: DO NOT USE LACQUER COATED AMMO. Otherwise, be prepared for the consequences. Additionally, most lacquer-coated ammo utilizes steel cases instead of brass. BAD FOR YOUR CHAMBER.


The Consequences: Poor feeding, poor extraction, poor accuracy, and an impossible to clean chamber possibly resulting in a rifle that simply does not work.


Although Olympic Arms only warrants their firearms when used with new production brass cased US manufactured ammo, we would be remiss to think that the bulk of our customers do not use remanufactured, imported or reloaded ammo. We know that they will, and do. The reason that our warranty does not cover the use of this ammo is as much to protect you, as it is our product and our product. If you are using factory US new manufactured brass cased ammo, and something goes wrong and the rifle is damaged, the ammo manufacturer will usually take care of any repair costs. If not, and the damage can be proven to be the fault of the ammo, you have some sort of course of action you can take against that manufacturer to recover some or all of the expenses of the repairs. If you use foreign lacquer coated ammo as an example, you have NO options.


Is your rifle worth it?

Winchester Ammo

I'll make this brief. For the reloader, Winchester brass is usually not the first pick. It's not mine. But until recently we have had no problems with Winchester ammunition. As of late however, we have been seeing a great many problems related to oversized brass and blowing primers. Please take this warning seriously. We have nothing against the Winchester company, as a matter of fact had used Winchester ammo for years as our official testing ammo, but there seems to be a large batch out there that simply does not work well.

Recommendation: Stay away from Winchester ammo, unless you are getting the really good match grade stuff, at least for now.

What ammo should I use?

We recommend that you use brass cased domestically produced new production ammo only. There are many manufactures and types of ammo that meet these specifications, so your options are large. But remember this, any autoloading rifle is only as good as the ammo and magazines you use in it. I will never understand why a person would spend $800- $1,000 on a new firearms, and then go out and buy a whole case of the cheapest garbage ammo he can find, and then complain because his rifle does not work properly when firing it. To me this is a bigger mystery than Bigfoot or the Bermuda Triangle. Use junk ammo, get junk results. Use quality ammo, get quality results.

Fine Print Warning!

We have all heard this before, but it applies here as well; always read the fine print. There are several well known manufacturers of ammunition that also sell ammo that is manufactured over-seas and then imported to the US. Additionally, most major manufacturers offer "less expensive" lines of ammunition bearing their factory names. I will not single out specific brands other than the Winchester which has caused many a problem, there's no getting around that.

The thing that these major brands have going for them is the name recognition. People see names they recognize, and they buy the ammo with confidence thinking it is a good quality ammo. But the fact remains, that this is not always the case. CHECK THE FINE PRINT!

I have some ammo in my hand, sold under a major brand name label. I have 6 boxes of ammo, all from the same manufacturer, and they manufactured in 5 different foreign countries and imported back into the US. Italy, R.P. (Haven't figured this one out yet), RSA (Republic of South Africa), R.O. Korea, are all represented on this list.

Again, BE CAREFUL, and READ THE FINE PRINT!

So what is quality ammo?

Here is a short (incomplete) list of quality ammunitions in no particular order:

Ammunition that has been used by Oly Arms as test fire ammo Ammo that may cause reliability problems *
Hornady
Black Hills (new production)
Federal
PMC (US Manufactured only)
Remington (new, non-UMC brand)
American Eagle Wolf (lacquer coated types not recommended)
PMC (imported ammo only: READ the fine print)
Reloaded ammo if not properly re-sized
Winchester (imported only: READ the fine print)

* Based on customer reported reliability problems


This list is in no way an official endorsement on the behalf of Olympic Arms of any particular brand of ammunition over another. This list is a non-biased compilation of brand names of ammunition that proved themselves as being the most reliable with regards to feed and function when tested in a factory assembled new Olympic Arms PCR rifle. This list is meant for non-commerical purposes only. Consumer results may vary.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:56:16 AM EDT

"Cheap" Wolf does not fragment, nor does it expand, so it's not suitable as serious SHTF ammo.

I don't know why everyone is so worried about ammo that doesn't fragment or expand. I doubt you or any perp would be able to tell if I just put three holes in you with Wolf or any other brand. The only worry I'd have about Wolf would be jamming. I've shot a bunch of Wolf through my Bushy with only one or two "failure to eject"s. But I've also had other brands of higher end ammo jam too. It's a gamble with each brand. But fragmentation and expansion shouldn't be the ultimate reason for choosing a certain SHTF ammo.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:58:51 AM EDT
They list
Hornady
Black Hills (new production)
So what can they shoot out of a Oly...

Well airsoft was not listed
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:59:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By freeflow:
They list
Hornady
Black Hills (new production)
So what can they shoot out of a Oly...

Well airsoft was not listed

The poster would be better off to just buy himself a new upper.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:48:13 AM EDT
I'm all for Wolf .223 for training and plinking. I don't think I'd use it for emergencies because it has a problem with fragging and tumbling. But, I've run over a case through my Stag without a hitch.

Tumbling and fragmentation is what makes the .223 drop the bad guys. Poking a .223" diameter hole through a person isn't going to slow them down too much, so you want to get that round tumbling and breaking up in the torso.

I buy Wolf FMJ whenever I find a good price, usu around $110/K.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:59:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 11:03:24 AM EDT by BIGDUKESIX]

Originally Posted By ARAggie:

"Cheap" Wolf does not fragment, nor does it expand, so it's not suitable as serious SHTF ammo.

I don't know why everyone is so worried about ammo that doesn't fragment or expand. I doubt you or any perp would be able to tell if I just put three holes in you with Wolf or any other brand. The only worry I'd have about Wolf would be jamming. I've shot a bunch of Wolf through my Bushy with only one or two "failure to eject"s. But I've also had other brands of higher end ammo jam too. It's a gamble with each brand. But fragmentation and expansion shouldn't be the ultimate reason for choosing a certain SHTF ammo.

Unless you are talking head or center chest shots I dissagree. Unless the shot is well placed you will probabbly not get CNS damage. Without the fragmentation IMHO 223 round is not that effective. You may not be lucky enough to get multiple hits
in a fight/ I will use the ammo that will give the best chance to end it with one shot.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:19:37 PM EDT
Wolf is unsuitible for a defensive load. Wolf has low velocity and thick jackets and examining bullets fired into several different mediums will find nearly intact bullets, though slightly damaged.
No fragmentation whatsoever. Wolf HP are also poor performers but marginally better than the FMJ.
Fragmentation is what makes 5.56 so effective, yawing alone doesn't make for a very capable round. Wolf is exclusively practice ammo, nothing else.
Where I live, Wolf 62grn FMJ's are 3.50 for 20 rounds. Walmart sells Winchester 55grn FMJ's*excellent ammo that offers similar lethality to M193* for under 7.50 for 40 rounds.
While Wolf is cheap, its not that much cheaper than other alternatives. Wincehster .223 55grn FMJ's are excellent rounds which can serve as practice rounds or SHTF bullets. These rounds will be cheap enough to stockpile/practice with but could also serve as effective SHTF rounds
Winchester .223 55grn FMJ
Federal AE .223 55grn FMJ
Black Hills blue box 55grn FMJ
There are other 55grn FMJ's out there which are affordible but I have found these to be the best/most reliable. I have amassed thousands of rounds of M193/M855 and if you buy them 100 rounds at a time, you can amass a considerable stockpile, though you will ultimatly pay more since its cheaper to buy bulk. I have around 2k of Winchester .223 55grn FMJ which is excellent ammo and I highly reccomend it, irreguardless of what Olympic says. Its great ammo and I have never had a problem after thousands of rounds.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:29:49 PM EDT

Unless you are talking head or center chest shots I dissagree.

Where else do you plan on aiming? The feet? Hands? Regardless, that's why the AR is semi-automatic and you can buy 30rd. mags for it. Wolf HP's will be better than the FMJ's. Any bullet with a hollow point will tear a bigger hole in something than a FMJ would. Wolf is not that inconsistent and slow like people make it out to be. Wow, 2800-3000 fps., yeah, thats turtle speed there. HP Wolf will be just fine for SHTF, if that's all you got. Most of this SHTF stuff people are talking about (zombies, Red Dawn) will never happen. People watch too many movies and believe what they see is real.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:35:09 PM EDT
I assume you're concerned about a long-term SHTF where ammo is hard to come by and you've got to use stored ammo. While I don't fault you for preparing for that eventuality, I'd recommend that you first spend $15-20 and buy at least 3 boxes of Q3131a or new production Q3131, load up two 30-rd mags, and use them first in any emergency. The odds are, that if you actually do get into a situation where you use your AR-15 defensively, you won't need more than 60 rounds. (But I think it's a good idea to have more than that on hand).

After you've got 60 rounds of ammunition quality ammunition, go ahead and pick up a case of wolf if you're concerned about TEOTWAWKI. Wolf doesn't seem to fragment (see the ammo oracle), so I'd get the HP stuff. Your plinker plus has a 1/9 twist, so I'd recommend the 62 gr HP. Before you buy a case of the stuff, however, I'd get a couple of boxes and make sure your rifle will feed it reliably.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:48:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 5:51:51 PM EDT by Derek45]
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:55:58 PM EDT
i have an olympic arms plinker carbine. ever sence i got it at the local gunshow i have shot over a couple of thousand wolf 62gr fmj and 55gr hp. I know that olympic arms actually has said the laquer casings like wolf has will jam up and will cause all kind of problems if your gun gets hot enough. i have done drills that the barrel gets so hot that it actually starts to melt the nylon sling

NEVER had a jam or a problem
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:58:26 PM EDT
of coarse for absolute shft i have my armor piercing rounds like hot reloaded ss109's in 20 rounders and my wolf hp in my 30 rounders so i dont get confused in the moment
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:14:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cqbgod:
of coarse for absolute shft i have my armor piercing rounds like hot reloaded ss109's in 20 rounders and my wolf hp in my 30 rounders so i dont get confused in the moment



Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:15:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cqbgod:
i have an olympic arms plinker carbine. ever sence i got it at the local gunshow i have shot over a couple of thousand wolf 62gr fmj and 55gr hp. I know that olympic arms actually has said the laquer casings like wolf has will jam up and will cause all kind of problems if your gun gets hot enough. i have done drills that the barrel gets so hot that it actually starts to melt the nylon sling

NEVER had a jam or a problem

That is beside the point. The bullets in Wolf will not expand or fragment. You will have nothing but a .224" hole which won't do much to stop someone hell bent on taking your life.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:21:38 PM EDT
what's so funny murdoc? the fact that i am ready for armor vests with my ss109's
and that you'll be sitting there with some siarra gameking bullets or norma crap
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:09:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Derek45:
www.ammo-oracle.com/

www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#wolfdef



Looks like many members need to spend some time there.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:34:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cqbgod:
what's so funny murdoc? the fact that i am ready for armor vests with my ss109's
and that you'll be sitting there with some siarra gameking bullets or norma crap



Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:42:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By cqbgod:
what's so funny murdoc? the fact that i am ready for armor vests with my ss109's
and that you'll be sitting there with some siarra gameking bullets or norma crap






Space shuttle is down for maintenance.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 1:07:18 AM EDT
too funny...
I haven't ever heard of the "siarra" match king. Is it like the Sierra Match King used in Mk262?
Thats great that cqbgod is doing "drills" with his Olympic plinker. I bet he does lots of weapon failure drills with his setup. Seems like a cqbgod might elect to use something other than Olympic, but I guess if Vulcan makes weapons for special forces, Olympic now apparently makes weapons for Special Ed. Wolf for a defensive round+Olympic plinker= NOT CQB godliness
Its people like cqbgod that make decent/intellegent gun owners and thier weapons pussy repellant.
Go back to the mall, ninja.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:06:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 5:06:20 AM EDT by SPTiger]

Originally Posted By cqbgod:
what's so funny murdoc? the fact that i am ready for armor vests with my ss109's
and that you'll be sitting there with some siarra gameking bullets or norma crap



Dude, you'd better quit while you're behind.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:19:35 AM EDT
Let me see if I can help this thread out. Let's change the topic a bit.

Let's say the S has HTF. All your good ammo has been shot up/traded for food/stolen/burned in a fire/lost in a boating accident/traded for a 10/22 and .38/whatever I don't really care. Now you are down to your training/plinking/blasting ammo. Which version of Wolf would you prefer to have?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:55:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gks452:
Let me see if I can help this thread out. Let's change the topic a bit.

Let's say the S has HTF. All your good ammo has been shot up/traded for food/stolen/burned in a fire/lost in a boating accident/traded for a 10/22 and .38/whatever I don't really care. Now you are down to your training/plinking/blasting ammo. Which version of Wolf would you prefer to have?



1/2 SP, and 1/2 FMJ, 55 or 62, makes no difference.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:56:45 AM EDT
Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure someone will ) but I have heard that the steel casings on Wolf is hard on the extractors for ARs, sometimes causing broken extractors. Is this true?

I know brass is softer, but is there much of a significant difference to be concerned about?

With all the SHTF concerns, well, hope and pray for the best and prepare for the worst. It might happen, it might not, either way, be as ready as you can be. God helps those who help themselves, plus it allows you to be less reliant on and/or less affected by external factors.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:06:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure someone will ) but I have heard that the steel casings on Wolf is hard on the extractors for ARs, sometimes causing broken extractors. Is this true?



False. Myth. Fabrication.


I know brass is softer, but is there much of a significant difference to be concerned about?


See above.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:22:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By goodoleboy:
I was looking at buying some bulk ammo for possible emegencies in the future. Im Looking at wolf Since thats all I can afford should I get
1. Hollow point
2. Soft point lead
2. Full metal Jacket
3. Full metal jacket Boat tail

What grain 55 grain or 62 grain?

Rifle is a Olympic Arms Plinker plus



I take it it's a 1/9 twist, so this would be my advice. Get 100 rounds of black hills 68gr BTHP and 100 rounds of black hills 75gr BTHP. Shoot them all,thats important as 10 rounds of each really isn't enough, shoot them at (50 of each)100 yards and shoot them (50 of each again)at 200 yards. The reason being that the 75gr bullets are on the edge of what will stabalise out of 1/9 twist barrel so you may not be happy with the accurecy at 100 but it may improve at 200 and beyond so you need to shoot them at those linger distances. I was getting between 2.5 and 3.5in groups with 75gr out of my 1/9 Hbar at 100 yards, at 200 I was shooting right around 2in groups.

As to putting some back, it's easy. I can buy two boxes of BH 75gr(100 rounds) or I can buy 100 rounds of wolf to practice with and then also get one 50rd box of BH to put back for roughly same price as getting 100 of the BH alone. I do the second. Makes it a little easier on the wallet and I get some practice ammo and some good self defense ammo.

More important them the ammo though, get some quality firearms training if you haven't yet, learn to fight with the gun because gunfighting and target shooting/plinking, while they share some things in common are two different animals.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:33:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 10:27:09 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure someone will ) but I have heard that the steel casings on Wolf is hard on the extractors for ARs, sometimes causing broken extractors. Is this true?

I know brass is softer, but is there much of a significant difference to be concerned about?

With all the SHTF concerns, well, hope and pray for the best and prepare for the worst. It might happen, it might not, either way, be as ready as you can be. God helps those who help themselves, plus it allows you to be less reliant on and/or less affected by external factors.



I've broken 4 extractors all on my SBR. Two were on wolf ammo, and two were on Q3131. In my experiance, it's not any eaiser on extractors nor any harder. However I do have to point out that the two that broke on wolf had aapprox 12k and 10k rounds on them. The two that broke on Q3131 were brand spanking new. One went after 150 rounds the other after about 1k. Don't know why don't care why, I just replaced them with ones from IIRC RRA instead of getting them from M1s and haven't had issues since.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:28:36 AM EDT
I would get the 62 gr Hollow points.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:23:27 AM EDT

Sometimes I don't even make it home from the range and the Wolf ammo I didn't get around to firing is all rusty so I throw it away. It's hard to believe some people think it will be fine as SHTF ammo.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 12:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Robert2011:
Sometimes I don't even make it home from the range and the Wolf ammo I didn't get around to firing is all rusty so I throw it away. It's hard to believe some people think it will be fine as SHTF ammo.



What are you, Aquaman? LINK
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:27:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:

What are you, Aquaman? LINK



That's the old lacquered version. I think the new stuff rusts even quicker. However I’ve opened boxes of both and found them already rusty.

My last new batch of Wolf ammo rusted in a few hours. I opened a box high in the mountains, then it started snowing, then raining, and then I left. After the warm ride home the left over rounds were rusty and hit the trash that night.

Not exactly the best round for bugging out to the mountains with in my opinion.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:12:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARAggie:

Unless you are talking head or center chest shots I dissagree.

Where else do you plan on aiming? The feet? Hands? Regardless, that's why the AR is semi-automatic and you can buy 30rd. mags for it. Wolf HP's will be better than the FMJ's. Any bullet with a hollow point will tear a bigger hole in something than a FMJ would. Wolf is not that inconsistent and slow like people make it out to be. Wow, 2800-3000 fps., yeah, thats turtle speed there. HP Wolf will be just fine for SHTF, if that's all you got. Most of this SHTF stuff people are talking about (zombies, Red Dawn) will never happen. People watch too many movies and believe what they see is real.


Have you actually READ the Ammo Oracle yet? Hell, even if you only look at the pictures, so long as you note the captions, you'll see that your statement (when applied to the 5.56) is not correct.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:57:38 PM EDT
not saying its perfect, but i have shot 1500rds of Wolf (gray) through my bushmaster with only 2 misfires, and they acctually group really good. about 3" at 100yds, but then i reload some 55gr FMJ's that get down to really tight 1.5" at 100.. so i get the wolf 55gr FMJ's for plinking and just to waste some rounds with friends.. and i have a stock pile of Q3131's and 55gr FMJ reloads(my speciality)..

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