What ammo do you use for home defence? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What ammo do you use for home defence? (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 2/15/2006 8:38:18 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep some mags partially loaded with Hornady 55gr. V-Max

You expecting a home invasion by Woodchucks?

Defense implies a pretty short-range situation and I think 55 gr. loads are more than adequate for that type of thing.

It's not about the range - it's about what the projectile will (or won't do) when it strikes the agressor. That 55gr VMAX won't penetrate nearly enough. Please go back an read the threads tacked at the top of this forum.

Try telling the 55gr is ineffective to all the insurgents its killed, then come back and talk.

That would be tough, considering we shoot them with M855 62gr....

...or in my case 77gr Mk. 262

Posted: 2/15/2006 9:16:11 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
No you wouldn't. At home defense ranges you won't see any change in the trajectory.

Probably not, but since I can see a difference in windage at 25 yards and it's inches different (windage) at 100, I choose to not to mix and match. It's my choice.

Posted: 2/15/2006 9:46:24 PM EDT

[#3]

5.56 55gr FMJ Federal XM-193

and, if i have to get desperate, .223 Wolf 62gr FMJ

Posted: 2/16/2006 1:59:54 AM EDT

[#4]

Why in the holy physics would a heavier projectile effect WINDAGE???
-jls7

Posted: 2/16/2006 4:19:14 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Why in the holy physics would a heavier projectile effect WINDAGE???
-jls7

Ahhh... at first, I thought you were commenting on how could bullet weight (mass) have an effect on the amount of movment due to the wind.

But it appears you are commenting on the post above... in that a different bullet weight printer a different windage setting at 100yd compared to a lighter bullet weight?

I dont know the physics behind it.... but I do know that every bullet *type* prints differently, even in the same barrel. Then, it also varies by powder type, and charge amount. I can change the powder type, or vary the change, and using the same bullet get up to 2MOA difference on windge. I can shoot the same powder and chage on a 55FMJ and a 55SP and they will have a different POI as well.

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:09:27 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep some mags partially loaded with Hornady 55gr. V-Max

You expecting a home invasion by Woodchucks?

Defense implies a pretty short-range situation and I think 55 gr. loads are more than adequate for that type of thing.

It's not about the range - it's about what the projectile will (or won't do) when it strikes the agressor. That 55gr VMAX won't penetrate nearly enough. Please go back an read the threads tacked at the top of this forum.

Once again, this is the data from Hornady and Bushmaster:

http://www.bushmaster.com/le/tests/hornady_tactical_ammunition.htm

Depth to maximum cavity is about 2.5" with the 40-60 gr "ballistic tip" bullets and penetration varies from 5-10". The 75 gr "Match" bullet has a depth to maximum cavity of about 6" and a penetration of 13.63". This is through gelatin which simulates muscle density.

I know we have touched on this in other topics but I still have some questions here as the abdomen and lungs are less dense than muscle. It seems a clear shot through the lungs with a 75 gr would not fragment at all (if bone is not hit).

FWIW, Hornady recommended the 55 gr.

A little more help?

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:40:24 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I just rack the slide on my 12 guage pump. The sound has been proven in police studies to scary the bad guys away.

Personally I'd rather scare the bad guys away with the sound of their ass being blown off by said shotgun.

Somebody comes into my house uninvited they are getting a warm welcome of bird shot to the face (no Cheney jokes implied there

).

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:53:35 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
#1... Mossberg 500 with Federal Tactical OO Buck...

But since the question was for AR's... Israeli M193

Rmpl

You don't want 00 Buck for home defense... that crap will go through anything. Studies show 00 buck overpenetrates interior walls more than 9mm.

Edited: more specific

Posted: 2/16/2006 6:11:55 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Probably not, but since I can see a difference in windage at 25 yards .

How do you see a difference in windage at 25 yards? and how is it in inches?

At 50y switching from Q3131A to BH 75 I just get one big hole in the center.

Posted: 2/16/2006 6:25:28 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Depth to maximum cavity is about 2.5" with the 40-60 gr "ballistic tip" bullets and penetration varies from 5-10". The 75 gr "Match" bullet has a depth to maximum cavity of about 6" and a penetration of 13.63". This is through gelatin which simulates muscle density.

5-10" is insufficient (5" definately - 10" marginally), you want rounds to penetrate at a minium of 12" with anything over 18" being a waste.

It seems a clear shot through the lungs with a 75 gr would not fragment at all (if bone is not hit).

On what do you base this? Because one of the leading researchers in the field has posted differenetly.

FWIW, Hornady recommended the 55 gr.

Again on what do you base this. One of the Hornady spokesmen is one of the people I get training from. His recommendation has been (and continues to be) 75gr.

Posted: 2/16/2006 8:29:22 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Depth to maximum cavity is about 2.5" with the 40-60 gr "ballistic tip" bullets and penetration varies from 5-10". The 75 gr "Match" bullet has a depth to maximum cavity of about 6" and a penetration of 13.63". This is through gelatin which simulates muscle density.

It seems a clear shot through the lungs with a 75 gr would not fragment at all (if bone is not hit).

Quoted:
On what do you base this? Because one of the leading researchers in the field has posted differenetly.

I base it on my somewhat informed knowledge of human tissue. Do you have a link to data that compares fragmentation in muscle vs abdomen vs lung? I am not trying to argue or pick a fight. I just seek greater knowledge.

Thanks

Posted: 2/16/2006 9:30:46 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep some mags partially loaded with Hornady 55gr. V-Max

You expecting a home invasion by Woodchucks?

Defense implies a pretty short-range situation and I think 55 gr. loads are more than adequate for that type of thing.

It's not about the range - it's about what the projectile will (or won't do) when it strikes the agressor. That 55gr VMAX won't penetrate nearly enough. Please go back an read the threads tacked at the top of this forum.

Yeah...getting hit with that 55gr. VMAX will be just like a bee sting. Why hell, it might just piss the bad guy off. Why don't you blow me asshole!

dvo

If you want to continue your stay here, you will NOT talk to other members in this way. This is your one warning.

Posted: 2/16/2006 9:49:49 AM EDT

[#13]

I have used Goggle to try to find some data but it is difficult. Here is the little I could find:

Then in the mid-1980’s, researchers at the Letterman Army Institute of Research (LAIR)
began publishing papers in professional journals based on their model for ballistic
research and, in particular, the work of Dr. Martin Fackler. These studies were based on
the measurement of projectile path and the projectile tissue interaction. In the first of
many papers in the mid to late 1980’s, researchers at LAIR used both live swine (50-70 kg) and gelatin blocks to test bullets and subsequently compared the results. The animals
were shot through the soft tissue of the hind leg from a distance of three meters, using the
gelatin to ‘catch’ the bullets after they were shot through the animals. A LAIR procedure
for 10% gelatin blocks at 4°C was used here and in future studies with a few refinements.

www.firearmsid.com/Gelatin/ Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Report.pdf

It appears that ballistic gelatin was formulated based on passage of lower speed bullets in muscle. Is there any data comparing .223 bullets in ballistic gelatin vs abdominal and lung tissue?

Posted: 2/16/2006 9:58:22 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep some mags partially loaded with Hornady 55gr. V-Max

You expecting a home invasion by Woodchucks?

Defense implies a pretty short-range situation and I think 55 gr. loads are more than adequate for that type of thing.

It's not about the range - it's about what the projectile will (or won't do) when it strikes the agressor. That 55gr VMAX won't penetrate nearly enough. Please go back an read the threads tacked at the top of this forum.

Yeah...getting hit with that 55gr. VMAX will be just like a bee sting. Why hell, it might just piss the bad guy off. Why don't you blow me asshole!

dvo

If you want to continue your stay here, you will NOT talk to other members in this way. This is your one warning.

Thanks. I thought you would get to this thread eventually. I regret what I said to Forest. Way too coarse, even for me. I should have edited the post.

Now...the person who started the thread asked what we are using for home defense. I stated mine, then got ridiculed for my choice. How do any of you know my particular home defense situation? How do you know that I have not read the Oracle? Why do some of you assume that you are able to give advice about my home defense considerations. I don't live on a battlefield in Afghanistan where 262 Mk..whatever may make the most sense.

There is a lot of good information here at arf.com, but there are also a lot of 20 year old's posting who don't even know what they don't know yet.

Jeff

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:11:31 AM EDT

[#15]

I use the LeMas BMT pot roast-tenderizing bullets of course, doesn't everyone???

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:25:27 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep some mags partially loaded with Hornady 55gr. V-Max

You expecting a home invasion by Woodchucks?

Defense implies a pretty short-range situation and I think 55 gr. loads are more than adequate for that type of thing.

It's not about the range - it's about what the projectile will (or won't do) when it strikes the agressor. That 55gr VMAX won't penetrate nearly enough. Please go back an read the threads tacked at the top of this forum.

Yeah...getting hit with that 55gr. VMAX will be just like a bee sting. Why hell, it might just piss the bad guy off. Why don't you blow me asshole!

dvo

If you want to continue your stay here, you will NOT talk to other members in this way. This is your one warning.

Thanks. I thought you would get to this thread eventually. I regret what I said to Forest. Way too coarse, even for me. I should have edited the post.

Now...the person who started the thread asked what we are using for home defense. I stated mine, then got ridiculed for my choice. How do any of you know my particular home defense situation? How do you know that I have not read the Oracle? Why do some of you assume that you are able to give advice about my home defense considerations. I don't live on a battlefield in Afghanistan where 262 Mk..whatever may make the most sense.

There is a lot of good information here at arf.com, but there are also a lot of 20 year old's posting who don't even know what they don't know yet.

Jeff

You need to learn to accept some good natured ribbing. Threads like this have been rehashed so many times that people get tired of responding. And when they see one of the common fallacies, they like to poke fun.

In your case, they were implying that 55gr Vmax is more suitable for woodchucks than for people. Which I can't disagree with.

Polymer tipped rounds underpenetrate...badly. You should not rely on them to reach CNS to rapidly STOP the threat.

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:27:19 AM EDT

[#17]

Here is another report:

The type of tissue affects wounding potential, as well as the depth of penetration. (Adams, 1982) Specific gravity (density) and elasticity are the major tissue factors. The higher the specific gravity, the greater the damage. The greater the elasticity, the less the damage. Thus, lung of low density and high elasticity is damaged less than muscle with higher density but some elasticity. Liver, spleen, and brain have no elasticity and are easily injured, as is adipose tissue. Fluid-filled organs (bladder, heart, great vessels, bowel) can burst because of pressure waves generated.

www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

I know I am new to this but it seems that ballistic gelatin should be compared to abdominal and lung tissue particularly in fragmenting bullets such as the .223.

Posted: 2/16/2006 11:41:13 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
www.firearmsid.com/Gelatin/ Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Report.pdf

It appears that ballistic gelatin was formulated based on passage of lower speed bullets in muscle. Is there any data comparing .223 bullets in ballistic gelatin vs abdominal and lung tissue?

Of course - Dr. Fackler used it during his studies to determine HOW .223 reacts in the human body.

BUT IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE LINKS AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM AS PREVIOSLY MENTIONED (and it should be noted the Forum Moderators have listed it as REQUIRED prior to posting) YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT.

This stuff isn't hidden, but you have to be willing to at least bother to READ the darn things before making such comments.

Posted: 2/16/2006 11:42:12 AM EDT

[#19]

P.S. Was the hint subtle enough?

Posted: 2/16/2006 11:44:11 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
www.firearmsid.com/Gelatin/ Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Report.pdf

It appears that ballistic gelatin was formulated based on passage of lower speed bullets in muscle. Is there any data comparing .223 bullets in ballistic gelatin vs abdominal and lung tissue?

Of course - Dr. Fackler used it during his studies to determine HOW .223 reacts in the human body.

BUT IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE LINKS AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM AS PREVIOSLY MENTIONED (and it should be noted the Forum Moderators have listed it as REQUIRED prior to posting) YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT.

This stuff isn't hidden, but you have to be willing to at least bother to READ the darn things before making such comments.

In his defense, I just was informed that those links hadn't been working in a week or more.

They should work now. New host made everything case-sensitive.

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:10:31 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
In his defense, I just was informed that those links hadn't been working in a week or more.

They should work now. New host made everything case-sensitive.

Very good, then I stand corrected - I must have missed where Mr. Neo mentioned broken links...

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:18:56 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Probably not, but since I can see a difference in windage at 25 yards .

How do you see a difference in windage at 25 yards? and how is it in inches?

At 50y switching from Q3131A to BH 75 I just get one big hole in the center.

The difference at 25 yards is small. I said "inches" with respect to 100 yards. Before you repeat that the topic is about home defense, I was just explaining my personal choices which may or may not have any relevance to anyone else's decisions.

When I fire from prone at 100 yards with my Colt 16 inch HBAR (1-9 twist) with a Leupold Vari-X II 1-4X20mm, the point of impact of XM193 is about two inches to the right of the point of impact with BH 68gr OTM. Elevation is about the same. At 240 yards, the difference is closer to six inches.

That's probably a non-issue for home defense. My point is, I'm not comfortable with mixing and matching knowing that there is that difference, however small it may be. Furthermore, I'd be long dead before I was reduced to using that particular rifle for a typical home defense situation as it's neither ready nor easily accessible for such duty.

I should have just said I use M193-spec ammo and stopped typing. None of this nitpicking is particularly useful, nor is it much fun.

I have zero experience with any 75gr loads, so I have not and will not comment on them.

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:26:21 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Why in the holy physics would a heavier projectile effect WINDAGE???
-jls7

It's not because it's heavier. It's because it's significantly longer and rotating at a different speed. Both of those affect how much the rotating body is affected by the air it's passing through.

It's counterintuitive unless you're a physics whiz (which I am not). I started a topic about it in this forum last year when I discovered the difference in windage between the two loads when I was expecting a difference in elevation. I was surprised. Other people who understand external ballistics far better than I were not and explained it. If you want to do some research, the term "precession" might help.

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:55:22 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
www.firearmsid.com/Gelatin/ Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Report.pdf

It appears that ballistic gelatin was formulated based on passage of lower speed bullets in muscle. Is there any data comparing .223 bullets in ballistic gelatin vs abdominal and lung tissue?

Of course - Dr. Fackler used it during his studies to determine HOW .223 reacts in the human body.

BUT IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE LINKS AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM AS PREVIOSLY MENTIONED (and it should be noted the Forum Moderators have listed it as REQUIRED prior to posting) YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT.

This stuff isn't hidden, but you have to be willing to at least bother to READ the darn things before making such comments.

I have read the pinned topics above, some multiple times. I think the long term members here need to understand that the amount of information here is overwhelming to the newcomer. I may have seen the link and forgotten it. I will look. It would be helpful if you could point to the link.

Thank you

Posted: 2/16/2006 1:04:47 PM EDT

[#25]

To be honest, I don't plan on an AR being my primary home defense weapon. There are just two many negatives from size to perception should I have to shoot someone. Its a fine weapon system just not for the home.

With that in mind, if I'm grabbing my AR it will have 62 grain Q3131 for I'm shooting at a horde of zombies or trying to take the car or vest out that's trying to drive through my house.

Tj

Posted: 2/16/2006 1:10:11 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
... Before you repeat that the topic is about home defense, I was just explaining my personal choices which may or may not have any relevance to anyone else's decisions.

Gotcha. I understand - I just wanted to make clear that at close distances the offset is minimal to nil.

The difference at 25 yards is small. I said "inches" with respect to 100 yards. ....When I fire from prone at 100 yards with my Colt 16 inch HBAR (1-9 twist) with a Leupold Vari-X II 1-4X20mm, the point of impact of XM193 is about two inches to the right of the point of impact with BH 68gr OTM. Elevation is about the same.

This concurs with what I've seen & shot myself.

Darn man you had me scratching my head as to how you could be inches off at 25y! LOL!

Posted: 2/16/2006 1:23:11 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you can find 5.56 TAP, go with that.

I have no dog in this fight, but I must ask.
Why would 5.56 TAP be a bad choice?

75gr 5.56 TAP would be an excellent choice...If you're an LEO.

since 99% of us are not LEOs suggesting it is kind of pointless.

I am not an LEO, and I have managed to get about 500 rounds this year alone. You want to tell me many others can't do the same? Not easy, I know, but very possible if you know the right people.

Posted: 2/16/2006 1:55:12 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
#1... Mossberg 500 with Federal Tactical OO Buck...

But since the question was for AR's... Israeli M193

Rmpl

You don't want 00 Buck for home defense... that crap will go through anything. Studies show 00 buck overpenetrates interior walls more than 9mm.

Edited: more specific

You posted above that you chose birdshot, no cheney jokes implied.
Think about this.
A 78 year old man was shot in the chest and head with birdshot, and he ain't dead.
Maybe you ought to rethink your choice in ammo.

Posted: 2/16/2006 2:25:08 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you can find 5.56 TAP, go with that.

I have no dog in this fight, but I must ask.
Why would 5.56 TAP be a bad choice?

75gr 5.56 TAP would be an excellent choice...If you're an LEO.

since 99% of us are not LEOs suggesting it is kind of pointless.

I am not an LEO, and I have managed to get about 500 rounds this year alone. You want to tell me many others can't do the same? Not easy, I know, but very possible if you know the right people.

If you reload you can roll your own without limitations on availability.

Rich V

Posted: 2/16/2006 2:43:14 PM EDT

[#30]

I dont know what I would use!
I have my 9mm and 38spl loaded in my night stand drawer!

I might use the 69BTHPSMK or maybe the77SMK out of my M4 upper!

Come on now Forest is in the KNOW

Posted: 2/16/2006 3:05:05 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
With that in mind, if I'm grabbing my AR it will have 62 grain Q3131 for I'm shooting at a horde of zombies or trying to take the car or vest out that's trying to drive through my house.

Tj

Posted: 2/16/2006 3:21:12 PM EDT

[#32]

Hornady TAP 55gr keep one mag of this in the rifle at all times.

M4 A2 type 16in Bushy 1:9 twist.

The other mags are M193 and Q3131( which was 55 gr last time I checked).

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:52:41 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
If you reload you can roll your own without limitations on availability.

Rich V

Rich you got a recipie for NATO pressure 75gr? I know some of the guys have been trying to get to that velocity w/o signs of overpressure but I don't recall hearing any sucesses.

Personally I don't have a need for the NATO pressure, and if someone's got a good source for the 5.56 75gr then by all means utilize it!.

Posted: 2/16/2006 6:32:56 PM EDT

[#34]

First to come out and play is my hi-point .40 loaded with Remington Golden Sabers. After those ten rounds, the Glock 23 is comming with with Golden Sabers as well. If they fail, the M4 will be putting up a wall of 79gr match rounds from Tsgunsandammo out of a beta mag.

Posted: 2/17/2006 2:07:24 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you reload you can roll your own without limitations on availability.

Rich V

Rich you got a recipie for NATO pressure 75gr? I know some of the guys have been trying to get to that velocity w/o signs of overpressure but I don't recall hearing any sucesses.

Personally I don't have a need for the NATO pressure, and if someone's got a good source for the 5.56 75gr then by all means utilize it!.

Forest,

I only reload for lighter bullets in my AR15s since they are 1 in 9 twist.
My go to gun at home is a Glock 20 with some very potent Gold Dots, 15 rounds of 10 mm in a nice size package. For me a rifle in home defense is a bit to large for maneuvering, I prefer a good pistol. For more serious encounters I will use my AR10 hand loaded with 155g Amax, the closest I can get to 100% one shot stops.
I was unaware of a problem of loading the 75g to NATO pressure, is Hornady using a non-commercial powder in their loads? Even so for all practical purposes I can’t see it making a difference in terminal effect in self defense situations.

Rich V

Posted: 2/17/2006 5:25:36 AM EDT

[#36]

24.5 grsVarget cci400 77smk or 24.0grs of AA2460 or 24grs. of Ramshot Tac

Are some loads Ive SEEN!

I dont think its NATO PRESSURE???

Black Hills/Win etc have Powders we will never get to use!

Posted: 2/17/2006 5:50:20 AM EDT

[#37]

Hornady 12ga. 00 Buck .......Oh you said for AR. In that case it's TAP 60 gr.

Posted: 2/17/2006 6:06:39 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Gotcha. I understand - I just wanted to make clear that at close distances the offset is minimal to nil.

And you're absolutely right! I'm just one of those guys who has to feel good about himself before he can "roll." Kind of like Billy Bob Thornton's character in "On Deadly Ground" when he's worrying over whether he wants his buttstock folded or open on his MP5K when kills Steven Seagal's character.

Quoted:
This concurs with what I've seen & shot myself.

Darn man you had me scratching my head as to how you could be inches off at 25y! LOL!

Heh! I should have been more clear when I posted my original message. Sorry for the confusion!

Posted: 2/17/2006 6:56:21 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

You posted above that you chose birdshot, no cheney jokes implied.
Think about this.
A 78 year old man was shot in the chest and head with birdshot, and he ain't dead.
Maybe you ought to rethink your choice in ammo.

Considering that he was shot with a 28 gauge (not the 12 gauge I would be using) at a greater than interior distance (about 30 yards away) and he wasn't even the intended target, I feel pretty good about my chances with birdshot. Even with all the above conditions the guy still fell over after getting hit.

So no, I won't be rethinking my choice in ammo... thanks.

ETA: Why can't people do a little research before shooting off at the mouth?

Posted: 2/17/2006 8:46:10 AM EDT

[#40]

I am an adamant ar owner(Bushmaster/Colt). But, for home defense i use a pistol of 40/45Cal.
You do not want to wound the ass hole(bad guy/girl) you want to blow there ass away!hey
Just make sure the fall in the house not outside.

Posted: 2/17/2006 8:56:22 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
I am an adamant ar owner(Bushmaster/Colt). But, for home defense i use a pistol of 40/45Cal.
You do not want to wound the ass hole(bad guy/girl) you want to blow there ass away!
If you just wound, they will sue you for bodily harm.
Just make sure the fall in the house not outside.

So...

You think that a 40/45 has better terminal ballistics than a 5.56?

Posted: 2/17/2006 9:03:17 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I am an adamant ar owner(Bushmaster/Colt). But, for home defense i use a pistol of 40/45Cal.
You do not want to wound the ass hole(bad guy/girl) you want to blow there ass away!
If you just wound, they will sue you for bodily harm.
Just make sure the fall in the house not outside.

So...

You think that a 40/45 has better terminal ballistics than a 5.56?

5.56 was made to wound, not to kill, dontcha know!

Posted: 2/17/2006 9:28:38 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am an adamant ar owner(Bushmaster/Colt). But, for home defense i use a pistol of 40/45Cal.
You do not want to wound the ass hole(bad guy/girl) you want to blow there ass away!
If you just wound, they will sue you for bodily harm.
Just make sure the fall in the house not outside.

So...

You think that a 40/45 has better terminal ballistics than a 5.56?

5.56 was made to wound, not to kill, dontcha know!

I'll go get the popcorn started!

Posted: 2/17/2006 9:52:46 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Even so for all practical purposes I can’t see it making a difference in terminal effect in self defense situations.

Rich V

Rich you are right it doesn't make a difference in the terminal effects - just to the range the fragmentation will take place. But even with the .223 load the range is more than adequate for non-military users.

Posted: 2/18/2006 2:09:25 AM EDT

[#45]

Sticking to the original question. For me the 20 round clip the first two rounds are 55 gr. Sierra Blitz then 62 gr. M885 equivalent for the rest.
Now deviating from the original question. For my Mossberg, first round birdshot then followed by 00 Win tactical bucks.

Posted: 2/18/2006 2:38:51 AM EDT

[#46]

75 grn TAP

Posted: 2/18/2006 2:56:41 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
24.5 grsVarget cci400 77smk or 24.0grs of AA2460 or 24grs. of Ramshot Tac

Are some loads Ive SEEN!

I dont think its NATO PRESSURE???

Black Hills/Win etc have Powders we will never get to use!

Have you any chrono data for the loads you have mentioned? I'm interested in TAC, as they claim 150 fps over the others.

Posted: 2/18/2006 6:40:27 AM EDT

[#48]

64gr winchester power points or 69gr sierra matchkings
for home defense.

Magnus

Posted: 2/18/2006 2:56:37 PM EDT

[#49]

75gr Tap when i can get it. Right now I have a lonely 20 rounder loaded with it. If I have more then 10 badguys I gotta move to 855 or 193.

Hopefully I can get my reloadin operation going later this spring and fix my ammo shortages

Posted: 2/18/2006 3:42:24 PM EDT

[#50]

I think the best thing, is to gather all the information you can on what ammo works best in YOUR weapon. Go out and shoot it. Get good with it. Then practice more.

For me that ammo is 75gr 5.56mm TAP and Q3131/Q3131A.

I use 14.5" - 10.3" 1/7 barrels.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What ammo do you use for home defence? (Page 2 of 3)

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