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Posted: 2/11/2006 1:19:57 PM EDT
After viewing THIS THREAD in the Reloading Forum, I finally got around to pulling one of my MK262 Mod1 BLEM's from Cabela's apart.

Here is the bullet: A 77g. Sierra MatchKing Boat-Tail Hollow Point (not a true hollow point)...


The most obvious observation is that the MK262 Mod1 has a VERY MILD cannelure. This differs greatly from typical military bullets with a cannelure and I can see where this cannelure would have very little detriment to the famed accurate flight of these bullets. It also looks to keep the strength of the THIN copper jacket intact.

I also didn't notice any SEALANT on the bullet or the case mouth. But the grip on the bullet was TIGHT as the scrapes/scratches on the jacket during removal show. I didn't see any sign of traditional roll or taper crimp but the bullet was tight in the case. Maybe a BUSHING-type of crimp?

Here is the powder: Looks like TAC but much more spherical and smaller spheres. See link above for a very good powder comparison...

This round had 26.0g of powder. I tried to reclaim all of it from the puller. Only ONE round examined.


The case is a typical WCC '04 case. I don't know what primer is used. Primer is SEALED and CRIMPED.

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 1:30:25 PM EDT
Interesting you had 1.5 more gr of powder than his in the link?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:39:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 3:43:32 PM EDT by uglygun]
[edit]

Visited the link and it's likely not 748 like I thought it might be.


Wonder if there's an Accurate Arms powder out there that might be fitting. Only AA that I have used is 2015 and that's a short stick powder similar to H322.


The source of the powder would definitely be nice to know.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:37:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 9:31:43 AM EDT by Molon]
Here's a pic of a virgin Sierra 77 grain bullet with cannelure. The cannelure looks to be a little deeper than the bullet in your post, but definetly not as deep as most military round cannelures that I have seen.


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:03:49 PM EDT
I have pulled alot of military bullets apart in 5.56mm.

Ive seen m193 powder wiegh 26.0grs. and M855 26.0grs to 27.1 grs.

I have a list someplace? I do know that the WIN M855 had the 27.1 grs. the heaviest so far
all look like ball type powder
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:21:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Molon:
Here's a pic of a virgin Sierra 77 grain bullet with cannelure. The cannelure looks to be a little deeper than the bullet in your post, but definetly not as deep as most military round cannelures.



Those SMK's have a very thin jacket... I would bet that the cannelure you have in your pic "may" take some of the penetration before fragmentation away from the bullet. The cannelures I put on some Nosler 77g. HPBT's using a hand tool made by CHT of something (a friends tool) were even deeper than yours.

I like the cannelure on the MK262. Just enough.... Your bullets are pretty good as well... Where did you buy them? I have looked high and low for some... no luck.

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 2:37:27 PM EDT
Taggage
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 2:38:54 PM EDT
Whats the Head stamp?
Who makes this round?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:44:38 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:53:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
Whats the Head stamp?
Who makes this round?



Huh?

It is military MK262 MOD1 made by Black Hills with WCC brass.

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:45:43 PM EDT
The difference in appearance of the cannelures is almost certainly due to differences in lighting. Rmplstlskn's picture was lit very flat, so there's not much in the way of shadow and thus not much impression of depth. Molon's picture has better fill flash, so while the subject is well exposed, the detail in the knurling is more evident. And I don't think Sierra would vary the depth of knurling much on what's supposed to be a high-accuracy bullet.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:37:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
The difference in appearance of the cannelures is almost certainly due to differences in lighting. Rmplstlskn's picture was lit very flat, so there's not much in the way of shadow and thus not much impression of depth. Molon's picture has better fill flash, so while the subject is well exposed, the detail in the knurling is more evident. And I don't think Sierra would vary the depth of knurling much on what's supposed to be a high-accuracy bullet.



Sorry, but I disagree. There is no way the bullet I pulled and the other 77g. bullet have the same cannelure. My pic is a very good representation of the cannelure on the MK262. It is a VERY LIGHT cannelure, almost not even felt by the fingernail.

I don't know what Sierra does to the MK262 bullets sold to Black Hills compared to the other SMK cannelure bullets they sell but I am just telling it like I saw it...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rmplstlskn:
I don't know what Sierra does to the MK262 bullets sold to Black Hills compared to the other SMK cannelure bullets they sell but I am just telling it like I saw it...

Rmpl



That could very easily be lot to lot difference. They dont seem that extremely different to me.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:39:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
Whats the Head stamp?
Who makes this round?



wow that is scary
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:47:01 AM EDT
why cant we get another group buy on this stuff again? the warkilling the supply from the hills?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:28:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
why cant we get another group buy on this stuff again? the warkilling the supply from the hills?



I've seen SierraEight comment either here or elsewhere that they would accept a group buy but they are kicking at max capacity for Uncle Sam and it would sit on their "to-do" list until a break opened up... so no definete time of delivery could be given...

I need not mention what happens when group buy participants get nervous about no product after a few weeks... the thread never ends... complaints on top of complaints...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:39:09 PM EDT
AROKIE Hey DUMB ASS! whats your problem???

I know its a new military round for the M4! 14.5 barrel

I know its a 77gr SMK!

What I didnt know is That Black hills is the only Manufacture?

And that Black Hills used Win Brass ONLY

Sorry I spend more Time at the range than on the key boards!!!AROKIEJoined Oct 2004 Post # 3440
It shows Buddy!

This is a place to learn! Not to rag on someone!

Give me a break I bought my first AR15 in 1983!

Hell I have 500 rds of black hills 77 gr. they used 4 different headstamp LC/wcc nato/wcc with no nato cross/etc!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:03:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
AROKIE Hey DUMB ASS!



Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:42:18 AM EDT
I have some Black Hills 77

the head stamp is 04 with nato cross thats it! nothing else!
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:19:53 PM EDT
Huge close up below

­

<­BR>





Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:27:08 PM EDT
Damn! That must be a MORTAR...

Looks like my MK262 cannelure... lightly grooved, no seration.
That is two seperate examples. I know I haven't seen a cannelure tool that will do those cannelures.

I'm more interested in what powder is used or the formulation.

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:25:20 PM EDT
Sierra Bullets is located in Sedalia, MO. and since I live in Sedalia, I will try to go by there tomorrow and see if they have any 77 gr. MatchKing BTHP on hand.

I have to make a trip to Columbia at noon, so I will have to see when their factory store opens and what they have (first run or seconds). If store open later in the day it may be thursday before I can find anything out.

Will let you know.

Leonard
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:23:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stormspotter:
Sierra Bullets is located in Sedalia, MO. and since I live in Sedalia, I will try to go by there tomorrow and see if they have any 77 gr. MatchKing BTHP on hand.

I have to make a trip to Columbia at noon, so I will have to see when their factory store opens and what they have (first run or seconds). If store open later in the day it may be thursday before I can find anything out.

Will let you know.

Leonard



They have the seconds, that is what I have, you have to ask for the ones with the cannelure, or else you will get plain old 77 SMKs
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:23:55 AM EDT
Just checked with Sierra Bullets and they have "blemished" 77gr. MatchKing BTHP, with the cannelure, for $9.51 a pound. However they do not take orders over the phone. If a member wants to try a pound and then give your results here, give me an email at emaskywarn@peoplepc.com and I will send it to you for the $9.51 plus UPS shipping. First email gets to try them.

If you have good results maybe I can do it for others also.

Leonard
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:45:08 PM EDT
email sent
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 1:27:24 PM EDT
Have received 2 emails so I will take care of them first and see if Sierra has any left.

Will post if so later.

Leonard
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:43:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stormspotter:
Have received 2 emails so I will take care of them first and see if Sierra has any left.

Will post if so later.

Leonard



Thanks Stormspotter for picking up the 77g. SMK bullets... They were EXACTLY like my MK262 Mod1 pic above, light cannelure and all...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
AROKIE Hey DUMB ASS! whats your problem???

I know its a new military round for the M4! 14.5 barrel

I know its a 77gr SMK!

What I didnt know is That Black hills is the only Manufacture?

And that Black Hills used Win Brass ONLY

Sorry I spend more Time at the range than on the key boards!!!AROKIEJoined Oct 2004 Post # 3440
It shows Buddy!

This is a place to learn! Not to rag on someone!

Give me a break I bought my first AR15 in 1983!

Hell I have 500 rds of black hills 77 gr. they used 4 different headstamp LC/wcc nato/wcc with no nato cross/etc!



lol, remain calm at all times while surfing the internet. you may have aneurism.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:20:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 3:22:38 AM EDT by FMJ]
Good info? I will try to remember that!

you could of gave me a break I bought my first AR15 in 80~s so Im not a Know it all on the subject.

I never bust someones balls on the forum!!

I try to HELP not HENDER. ( Do cut downs make you feel better about your self)

ALSO I have BLACK HILLS 77gr and the HEAD STAMP HAS JUST THE DATE AND NATO CROSS ONLY
wich is also why I asked about it?

Like I say I dont know everything about AR15 I only join in FEB 2001 POST # little over 2000

I spend more time at the RANGE than on the KEY BOARD LIKE YOURSELF!
as your title says it all!
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