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Posted: 2/3/2006 9:11:04 AM EDT
Just a question. If you buy ammo Wolf, Federal, Winchester or what ever else. If your gun blows up solely due to poor ammo (to much powder or anything else that will cause a gun to go BOOM) if you called the manufactor and stated the problem would they pay to have your gun fixed and replace it if it is not fixable. If this has ever happened does anyone ever know of a ammo manufator paying for someones gun. No this has not happened to me BTW I am just curious if there are certain ones that will actually do it fo their customers.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:32:12 AM EDT
I think you would hard time convincing them it wasn't due to a bad reload, etc.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:43:32 AM EDT
I recall someone in our club whose match-prepped M1A went Kaboom some years back. The ammo mfg wanted the rifle and what was left of the ammo to do an investigation of the cause. I don't remember if the owner got his rifle rebuilt at no charge, or not. I also can't remember the ammo mfg. It seems as though the ammo might have been tumbled at some point in the story. That should only have mattered if the powder used was an extruded type.

This has to be an extremely rare event with rifles using factory ammo. It basically implies that pistol powder was used instead of rifle powder. Reloads...well, that is a different story.

Jeff
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:51:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dvo:
I recall someone in our club whose match-prepped M1A went Kaboom some years back. The ammo mfg wanted the rifle and what was left of the ammo to do an investigation of the cause. I don't remember if the owner got his rifle rebuilt at no charge, or not. I also can't remember the ammo mfg. It seems as though the ammo might have been tumbled at some point in the story. That should only have mattered if the powder used was an extruded type.

This has to be an extremely rare event with rifles using factory ammo. It basically implies that pistol powder was used instead of rifle powder. Reloads...well, that is a different story.

Jeff



the "tumbled powder" idea has been disproven several times.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:05:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danonly:

Originally Posted By dvo:
I recall someone in our club whose match-prepped M1A went Kaboom some years back. The ammo mfg wanted the rifle and what was left of the ammo to do an investigation of the cause. I don't remember if the owner got his rifle rebuilt at no charge, or not. I also can't remember the ammo mfg. It seems as though the ammo might have been tumbled at some point in the story. That should only have mattered if the powder used was an extruded type.

This has to be an extremely rare event with rifles using factory ammo. It basically implies that pistol powder was used instead of rifle powder. Reloads...well, that is a different story.

Jeff



the "tumbled powder" idea has been disproven several times.




+1
The "several times" may even be an understatement.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:19:53 AM EDT
There have been a few cases I've read about where the ammo manufacturer has paid for a repair or replacement, they have to examine the weapon and leftover ammo to see what happened, the rifle manufacturers normally blame the ammo, but in some cases the maker of the firearm takes responsibility.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:40:15 PM EDT
What if WWB blew my AR build to pieces? Would they still offer replacement price if they determined it was their fault?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:59:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
What if WWB blew my AR build to pieces? Would they still offer replacement price if they determined it was their fault?


You would have to contact them to find out, they will want to inspect the rifle and any remaining ammo.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:26:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:04:11 PM EDT
About 20 years ago, a friend of mine had a Rem.700 bolt action blow up.

He took damage to his hand, arm, neck and face.

Remington replaced the gun,
Payed all his medical bills,
and gave him a cash settlement (above medical cost).
It was not a lot of money, but it was fair. (in my opinion)

But I need to add Remington did not volentarly become generous.
Laywers were involved.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:24:33 PM EDT
First of all, I now know to stay away from Black Hills ammunition. Second, your buddy sued Remington for what may have been the ammo's fault or was that determined to not be the case?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:33:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:20:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:28:36 PM EDT
Wolf 9mm blew up my Para P18. Wolf paid me for the remaining 750 rounds of the case and paid Para to replace my slide.

All in all, Wolf was very quick to right the wrong. They were very smooth and I got the feeling that this kinda thing happened often (merely conjecture on my part).

Anyway, +1 for Wolf.


BTW......Wolf had not touched any of my guns since.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:43:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
JackalAR,
I must have mised something. What offends you about my post? Jeff Hoffman




I'm curious to find that out, too. I'll take his share, though.


Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:48:01 PM EDT
Black hills, my M1A loves the stuff.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:05:55 PM EDT
my buddy had his M1A blow up while shooting some gun show specialty ammo and when we sent it back to SA they had him sign a waiver and pay $100 and they rebuilt the rifle with a new receiver, stock and other small parts. he was happy and felt like he was treated right
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:06:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 8:08:58 PM EDT by JackalAR]
I'm not offended man, just share the same concerns as HeavyMetal. I too dropped $1,400 into my 16" mid-length build because I wanted the best money could buy for each part. I don't want to risk having a kB with ammunition from a manufacturer who won't stand behiond their product because I chose to learn the AR and spec out my own parts. What if someone had a post-ban RRA and wanted a flattop upper so they swapped for a CMT upper, and a Bushmaster collapsable stock with Ergo grip. Worse yet, what if they changed their RRA M4 barrel with someone else's mid-length w/ threaded barrel? Guess any of the above could easily be considered a "parts" gun thus not considered for coverage in case of such a mishap. Nothing personal, just glad to know Black Hills' position before stocking up. If I took your wording wrong, I'd like to be corrected.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:26:05 PM EDT
Black Hills ammo is first class operation, they make some of the finest ammo available.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:48:37 AM EDT
Mag Tech replaced some .45acp barrels because they forgot to put powder ~25% of two lot numbers. They replaced the barrels and the ammo at no cost with minimal complaint.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:31:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 6:32:21 AM EDT by JackalAR]

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
Black Hills ammo is first class operation, they make some of the finest ammo available.



This may be the case, but it doesn't sound like a good choice for an expensive ass custom built AR now does it?

WWB Q3131 and GA Canned Heat will be my plinking ammo for now...and besides shitty ass Wolf, are the cheapest US made stuff too.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:52:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JackalAR:

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
Black Hills ammo is first class operation, they make some of the finest ammo available.



This may be the case, but it doesn't sound like a good choice for an expensive ass custom built AR now does it?

WWB Q3131 and GA Canned Heat will be my plinking ammo for now...and besides shitty ass Wolf, are the cheapest US made stuff too.



You would pick GA Canned Heat over Black Hills?

While I love GA's, Black Hills is superior to any GA product. You need to rethink wtf you are talking about. Black Hills has VERY high quality, there reloads are considered better than some factory loads.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:00:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 7:04:41 AM EDT by JackalAR]
Uhhh...did you not see their position on "parts guns" or can you not f*#king read? I commented on this twice already. It has nothing to do with BH quality, and it's nothing personal. I just decided not to choose a dime-a-dozen off the shelf AR, so I won't risk using their ammo. I'll be looking more into Winchester and GA's stance on the issue as well. GA is good stuff too and many trust their lives to GA's Speer GD loaded rounds...they are also a lot cheaper for plinking ammo compared to BH. I'm not knocking BH at all, I just stated that my AR won't be eating the stuff, at least for now.

We don't even know for sure what BH considers to be a "parts gun" yet, so until he clarifies it's really not even worth discussing.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:08:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
Uhhh...did you not see their position on "parts guns" or can you not fucking read? I commented on this twice already. It has nothing to do with BH quality, and it's nothing personal. I just decided not to choose a dime-a-dozen off the shelf AR, so I won't risk using their ammo. I'll be looking more into Winchester and GA's stance on the issue as well. GA is good stuff too and many trust their lives to GA's Speer GD loaded rounds...they are also a lot cheaper for plinking ammo compared to BH. I'm not knocking BH at all, I just stated that my AR won't be eating the stuff, at least for now.



I have a "custom build", Stag lower, Del-Ton kit, and have no issue with shooting Black Hills in my gun. I'm not worried about it blowing it up.

I don't think he meant a quality build with good parts as being a parts gun, parts guns IMO are ones thrown together with shitty parts.

If Jeff comes in and says somethign to the contrary, and says they wouldn't warranty their ammo in any build that is not a off the shelf gun(Bushy, Colt etc) I will retract what I have said. But until then, i'm sticking with it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:11:15 AM EDT
I edited my last post to say just that, we don't even know their definition of "parts gun" yet. If I assume wrong, then I will be using BH for deer hunting next season.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:35:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:40:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:54:02 PM EDT
Thanks for the info guys. Like I said this has never happened to me and I hope it never does. This wa merely a question that has been on my mind for quite some time now.
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