Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 2/2/2006 8:31:43 AM EDT
Ok I have done a search and cant quite find the answer I was looking for, so here it is. What is the difference between Q3131, Q3131A, M193, XM193, XM193PD than XM855, M855 and XM855PD? I know its out there in the forums but I sure cant find it so far in searches of the last 3 months. Also when buying 55 grain m193 and (variants) how do you know if its loaded to 5.56 pressure vs .223?
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:37:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:41:50 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
NO offense but your about to beat this topic to death, and it appears you still haven't taken the time to read the www.ammo-oracle.com.......

Mike

ps - ya got a plethera of threads in the Ammunition forum which answer some of your questions above and have been directed to Ammo Faq several times......., stop posting and read, is the best advice I can give ya.


ETA - here's all your ammo threads except for the 2 ya posted today, (note: the active one ya may want to review as there is good info there about XM193 and XM193PD, etc...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=266377

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=266260

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=266365

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=264038

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:37:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:38:47 AM EDT by svtfast]
I cant say much about the Q3131/Q3131A as I have never shot it before. If I remember right the "A" is either mil spec or ammo made after 300 or its the IMI built stuff.

M855/M193 is mil spec ammo, tier one ammo.
XM855/XM193 is 2nd tier ammo, still good stuff though
all the PD crap is well, crap. Its all the rejects.

EDIT: yea read the ammo oracle
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:47:10 AM EDT
I did read the ammo oracle but I guess I missed that but in a nutshell SVT Fast summed it up for what I was looking for now just to answer tha Q3131 and how do I know if its 5.56 or .223
Thanks for the info at present I'm away from my home computer and over at my sons (college) and using his lap top. The reason I'm asking while the women go shopping all day I was going to hit all the gun stores, army surplus stores and look for 193 and 855 so I was just getting a quick lesson and what to look for.
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:53:25 AM EDT
Q3131 and Q3131A (both in Winchester "white" boxes) are 5.56mm and 55gr. FMJ. Winchester also sells some other white box loadings, including 55gr. FMJ that are .223 Rem. The number on the end flap of the box tells the story. Gotta agree that there are tons of threads about all of this here somewhere. Good luck in your search.

Jeff
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:56:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
and how do I know if its 5.56 or .223




No matter what ya buy the box will say 5.56 or 223 on the end tab, so it ain't like ya won't know what your buying.

Normally if it says 5.56 it's loaded to mil-pressures, if it says 223 it's loaded to SAAMI spec pressures.

To tell ya the truth your hung up on the wrong things here IMO.

I want to stock and buy the ammunition that shoots the tightest groups in my rifles, and don't care whether it's SAAMI or 5.56 pressure.

For plinking ammo my choice is Q3131A which is the Israeli made Winchester M193, for SHTF, (as all my rifles are 1/7 twist) I stock BH 77grn. SMK (sierra bullet, used in the current mod Mk262), as they shoot the best in all my rifles.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:01:18 AM EDT
I have my stock piled ammo I'm just looking for plinking ammo and you never know might you might find ammo, so I was kind wanting to be a little informed.....
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:03:38 AM EDT
Go to www.ammoman.com and buy 1000 rounds of 223 55gr AE for $209 delivered. Whenever M193 comes in stock get that.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:58:17 PM EDT
Because I got some spare time…

Q3131 = Winchester commercial 5.56mm cartridge designed to approximate M-193. It’s good stuff except for a batch that came out in 99. The date is stamped on the case so it’s easy to tell.

Q3131A = essentially Q3131 made in Israel for Winchester, reported to be good stuff too.

M-193 = US military spec 5.56mm ammunition with a 55 grain FMJ bullet. The neck and primer is sealed to stop water. The primer is also crimped to keep it from blowing out from the high pressure. (I don’t think this is ever sold to the public.)

XM-193 = Sometimes a batch of ammo is rejected by quality control for some reason. The ammo is generally safe to shoot after inspection but it might have missing sealant or other minor defects. It comes in a 20 round box.

XM-193PD = rejected M-193 which apparently wasn’t good enough to be XM-193. It’s sold in bulk and needs careful inspection. Count on rejecting a small but significant percentage.

M-855 = US military spec 5.56mm ammunition with a 62 grain bullet. It will have a steel penetrator under the brass. The tip will be painted green. It requires a 1 in 9 or faster barrel to stabilize. The heavier bullet means velocity is a little lower.

XM-855 = Just like XM-193 except with the M-855 cartridge.

XM-855PD = Just like XM-193PD except with the M-855 cartridge

SS-109 = NATO spec 5.56mm. M-855 meets SS-109 standards but not all SS-109 qualifies as M-855. Some of it has plain tips and it might not be quite as hot.

As a general rule if the box says .223 it’s .223 pressure, and if it says 5.56 it’s the high pressure stuff.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:50:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
Because I got some spare time…

Q3131 = Winchester commercial 5.56mm cartridge designed to approximate M-193. It’s good stuff except for a batch that came out in 99. The date is stamped on the case so it’s easy to tell.

Q3131A = essentially Q3131 made in Israel for Winchester, reported to be good stuff too.

M-193 = US military spec 5.56mm ammunition with a 55 grain FMJ bullet. The neck and primer is sealed to stop water. The primer is also crimped to keep it from blowing out from the high pressure. (I don’t think this is ever sold to the public.)

XM-193 = Sometimes a batch of ammo is rejected by quality control for some reason. The ammo is generally safe to shoot after inspection but it might have missing sealant or other minor defects. It comes in a 20 round box.

XM-193PD = rejected M-193 which apparently wasn’t good enough to be XM-193. It’s sold in bulk and needs careful inspection. Count on rejecting a small but significant percentage.

M-855 = US military spec 5.56mm ammunition with a 62 grain bullet. It will have a steel penetrator under the brass. The tip will be painted green. It requires a 1 in 9 or faster barrel to stabilize. The heavier bullet means velocity is a little lower.

XM-855 = Just like XM-193 except with the M-855 cartridge.

XM-855PD = Just like XM-193PD except with the M-855 cartridge

SS-109 = NATO spec 5.56mm. M-855 meets SS-109 standards but not all SS-109 qualifies as M-855. Some of it has plain tips and it might not be quite as hot.

As a general rule if the box says .223 it’s .223 pressure, and if it says 5.56 it’s the high pressure stuff.



I know there are a lot of these types of threads, and the information can be gotten with a few simple searches and DAYS worth of reading, but damn...this post is EXACTLY what newbs want / need to see. Awesome job man.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:19:14 PM EDT
all i know is that the m855 are 62 grain and the xm193 is 55 grain
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:52:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Also when buying 55 grain m193 and (variants) how do you know if its loaded to 5.56 pressure vs .223?
Thanks,
Mike



look for the NATO headstamp,most likely its loaded hot.


Longhunter

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:00:18 PM EDT
NATO Headstamp=circle with croshairs inside it.
Top Top