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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:53:57 PM EDT
what is the story behind m995 ammo? has anyone heard of it?
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:57:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 2:58:03 PM EDT by xmikex]
It's M855 + 140.

Just kidding - I'd be curious as well - never heard of it.

Mike
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:03:14 PM EDT
Yah.... The Real A.P. rounds.... What was/is made is Military Only.... Something about being loaded up in SAW belts for the guners....
Haven't heard much lately about it.... Unknown if still being used or not....

Ain't much but
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:23:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 3:28:52 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
Type Classification:
Std - 29 Mar 96.
<------


Use:
Rifle, 5.56MM, M16A2 Rifle, 5.56MM, M249 Squad
Automatic Weapon.


Description:
Armor Piercing Cartridge. This cartridge is identified by
black bullet tip identification paint.


Purpose:
This cartridge provides improved penetration
performance against various targets as compared to
standard ball ammunition.


Tabulated Data:
DODAC........................ 1305-AA01,
1305-AA02
Weight ......................... 180 gr
Length.......................... 2.25 in.
Tracer .......................... N/A
Primer.......................... 4.5mm Berdan
Fuze............................. N/A
Explosive:
Type ......................... N/A
Weight ...................... N/A
Incendiary:
Type ......................................N/A
Weight ...................................N/A

Propellant:
Type ......................................WCR845
Weight ...................................27.5 gr
Projectile:
Weight ...................................52 gr
Performance:
Chamber pressure.....................50,250 psi
Velocity .....................................3324 fps at 78 ft
from muzzle



Shipping and Storage Data:

Linked AP cartridge...................1305-01-393-7050,
AA01
Linked AP cartridge with tracer..1305-01-393-7052,
AA02


Quantity-distance class/SCG.....1.4S
Storage code.............................Class C
DOT shipping class ...................C
DOT designation .......................SMALL ARMS
AMMUNITION
Drawing number........................12956131
References:
TM 9-1005-201-10
TM 9-1005-319-10
TM 9-1305-201-20&P
TM 9-1305-201-34&P
Change 2 10-25
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:19:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 6:20:19 PM EDT by jaymeister99]

Originally Posted By sgtscott:
what is the story behind m995 ammo? has anyone heard of it?



Black tip armor piercing round. This is the REAL armor piercing round, the M855 penetrator is not armor piercing as it is often considered. This Black Tip stuff is illegal to possess. The black tip armor piercing rounds are only legal on 30-06, and 50BMG.

Yes you read that right. Even a few years back they were selling the 30 caliber bullets for reloading, and they could NOT be legally made into 308 ammo, only 30-06.

Why only 30-06, and 50BMG black tips? Word around the campfire is that these rounds were released into the public a long time ago (over 40 years?), before they decided to ban the AP ammo for civilians.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:17:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By sgtscott:
what is the story behind m995 ammo? has anyone heard of it?



Black tip armor piercing round. This is the REAL armor piercing round, the M855 penetrator is not armor piercing as it is often considered. This Black Tip stuff is illegal to possess. The black tip armor piercing rounds are only legal on 30-06, and 50BMG.

Yes you read that right. Even a few years back they were selling the 30 caliber bullets for reloading, and they could NOT be legally made into 308 ammo, only 30-06.

Why only 30-06, and 50BMG black tips? Word around the campfire is that these rounds were released into the public a long time ago (over 40 years?), before they decided to ban the AP ammo for civilians.



You can legally make 30 cal armor piercing ammo or any armor piercing ammo under the various exceptions under said law. For example a Class 2 can make them for "experimental" purposes. Also I was unaware it was illegal to posses only to manufacture or sell.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:58:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 12:04:57 PM EDT by jaymeister99]

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By sgtscott:
what is the story behind m995 ammo? has anyone heard of it?



Black tip armor piercing round. This is the REAL armor piercing round, the M855 penetrator is not armor piercing as it is often considered. This Black Tip stuff is illegal to possess. The black tip armor piercing rounds are only legal on 30-06, and 50BMG.

Yes you read that right. Even a few years back they were selling the 30 caliber bullets for reloading, and they could NOT be legally made into 308 ammo, only 30-06.

Why only 30-06, and 50BMG black tips? Word around the campfire is that these rounds were released into the public a long time ago (over 40 years?), before they decided to ban the AP ammo for civilians.



You can legally make 30 cal armor piercing ammo or any armor piercing ammo under the various exceptions under said law. For example a Class 2 can make them for "experimental" purposes. Also I was unaware it was illegal to posses only to manufacture or sell.



No you cannot. The M2 30-06 ammo is the only black tip exempted. You cannot manufacture ANY black tip ammo without a Class 10 license. But on the possession I stand corrected, it is legal to possess.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:03:22 PM EDT
interesting, I coulda swore all AP ammo was legal in my home state of OR....

How much can M995 penetrate?
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:24:25 PM EDT
Both the 5.56 M995 and its 7.62 counter part are made by Bofors and are intended to give small arms more penetration ability lightly armored vehicles and such. We had a chance to do some testing with the M995 round, along with Bofor's 9mm AP round. I was curious to see how the 5.56 M995 would perform against a windshield at various ranges/angles. While it may take several M855/M193 rounds to weaken the glass enough for intact bullets to pass, 1 M995 will penetrate with enough retained mass to be lethal. The penetration provided by the dense tungston carbide core is extremely impressive, and offers increased capability to engage people in vehicles and such. The 7.62 counterpart is obviously much more impressive. We did some testing against a turbine engine frome a UH1 Huey along with some aviation glass and its performance was impressive. This round is certainly capaible of penetrating an engine block in a vehicle or aircraft

to immobilize it. The M995 has limited utility ouside the M249 system. Its a very poor anti-personel round as it doesn't fragment. There is some yawing/tumbling after de-stabilization, but lethality is vastly inferior to M855. Its best utilized on SAW belts with M995 every 4th round, or even every other round. I have observed SAW's mounted on vehicles using belts entirely of M995 and tracers. This round offer a huge advantage over M855 when opposing vehicles. It also offer an increased penetration against barriers, though 5.56 doesn't do this as well as 7.62 but the M995 is a vast improvement. This ammo is very rare and coveted. Its expensive and hasn't been fully issued/circulated. It does exist in quantity with Spec Ops units. I observed a SEAL using a Para SAW and his belts were loaded as follows; Mk262, Mk262, Mk262, M995 and tracer. I was impressed, as this would be a very effective weapon/ammo combo. Don't ask your uncle in the NG for M995, he probably hasn't heard of it or seen it. Its scarce outside of special ops units and even if your pal in the USMC could get it, it would be illegal for you to possess as its true AP ammo.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:28:36 PM EDT
Guys, it's not illegal to possess M995 or M993 under Federal Laws. Local laws may restrict possession of AP ammo, but the Feds say you cannot manufacture, import, sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition for personal use. If you purchase the components and load the ammunition yourself, it's perfectly legal under Federal Laws.

More about the M995, here's a comparison of various 308 AP projectiles. You can imagine that the .223 is very similar.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:34:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 3:35:24 PM EDT by Sinister]
It groups in HALF the group size of M855 at 300 meters when fired from a standard issue M16A2 and M16A4 from a USAMU mechanical rest. It has roughly the same muzzle velocity of M193.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:17:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 7:18:12 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By sgtscott:
what is the story behind m995 ammo? has anyone heard of it?



Black tip armor piercing round. This is the REAL armor piercing round, the M855 penetrator is not armor piercing as it is often considered. This Black Tip stuff is illegal to possess. The black tip armor piercing rounds are only legal on 30-06, and 50BMG.

Yes you read that right. Even a few years back they were selling the 30 caliber bullets for reloading, and they could NOT be legally made into 308 ammo, only 30-06.

Why only 30-06, and 50BMG black tips? Word around the campfire is that these rounds were released into the public a long time ago (over 40 years?), before they decided to ban the AP ammo for civilians.



You can legally make 30 cal armor piercing ammo or any armor piercing ammo under the various exceptions under said law. For example a Class 2 can make them for "experimental" purposes. Also I was unaware it was illegal to posses only to manufacture or sell.



No you cannot. The M2 30-06 ammo is the only black tip exempted. You cannot manufacture ANY black tip ammo without a Class 10 license. But on the possession I stand corrected, it is legal to possess.



So manufacturer of DD is a Class 10 not Class 2 that was my bad.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:01:13 PM EDT
That FN 308Winchester projectile is a pile of garbage.


I've got a 1 1/4 inch steel plate that I've put a beating on using my 300WinMag loaded with 163grn AP projectiles. Those cores are still nice and sharp on the back side of the plate after being spanked to around 3200fps.


Compare to the 150grn FN projectiles which I was hoping would work better thanks to being able to get to around 3400fps. Penetration was minimal, less than that of my starting load with the 163s at a slower velocity. The cores of the 150s are not hardened as well or as resiliant as the 163s, tips were deforming and/or melting causing them to fuse to the target plate rather than penetrate.


Of the cores out there, if I had to rank which are likely to be the best. The M993 and the old M2 30-06AP projectiles are it. The M993 has me fascinated because it's the only one with a true conical nose shape which could prove interesting, as opposed to the M2 which has a big of lead between the nose of the AP core and tip of the jacket(argued to help it plant against a surface on impact). The 150grn FN projectiles have a small amount of lead located at their base against the bottom of the steel core.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:37:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uglygun:
Of the cores out there, if I had to rank which are likely to be the best. The M993 and the old M2 30-06AP projectiles are it. The M993 has me fascinated because it's the only one with a true conical nose shape which could prove interesting, as opposed to the M2 which has a big of lead between the nose of the AP core and tip of the jacket(argued to help it plant against a surface on impact).


Of more significanc is the fact that the M993 has a tungsten carbide core, which allows it to penetrate about 50% more armour than the best steel-cored bullets in the same calibre.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:35:33 AM EDT
That probably has a bunch to do with the density of Tungsten or even it's alloys. Probably helps to retain energy on target as well as greatly increase PSI across the tip of the penetrator.

That is the one draw back that I see with steel cores, upon impact they don't have as much mass to help them trudge on through.

After using my 50BMG 700 Grn AP loads and retreiving them from all kinds of things to include my 1 1/4 inch steel plate, a direct encounter with a huge boulder, and a few other objects. I have yet to see one of those 50cal. M2 projectiles become dull from an impact.

One of the guys on biggerhammer did a spectrograph analysis of a 50BMG core and found it to be very high percentage of steel, like above 95% steel. The machine he used couldn't detect tungsten under like .5% and it didn't even raise a blip for tunsten so if there was any it was very insignificant.


Of all the things that has surprised me, the encounter with the boulder was definitely the one that took the cake. Nailed it at about 100-150 yards, took a big fist sized chunk out of the rock, and the penetrator was found about 1 foot away from the front of the boulder. Rock is damn abrasive stuff and I figured if anything would make the steel core submit, it would have been that.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:22:39 AM EDT
back to the m995. i have seen black tipped ammo at gun shows and i know some have been accused of painting the tips to represent it as m995.

how can you tell the difference between m995 and other ammo other than the tip color which obviously is easy enough to replicate.

anybody have any pictures to show the difference or what markings does the m995 have? i have a picture somewhere i took of a black tipped round when i was wondering about this a while back walking around a gunshow.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:35:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By knightvision:
i have seen black tipped ammo at gun shows



What you saw was probably Olympic Ammunition's version of M855 they used black on the tips to ID it for a little while, don't kno if they still do though.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:15:40 PM EDT
Your "BLACK" tip you seen wandering the funshow was most likely this stuff :



Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:32:49 PM EDT
Tungsten is NONMAGNETIC. That's how you can tell if it's M855 but lead is nonmagnetic too so you could be sol. There is a guy on gunbroker selling bullets for reloading and calling them Tungsten but they are all steel core so buyer beware.
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