Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/11/2006 6:29:13 PM EDT
I have not had any major issues with Wolf but I am curious if anyone has used it in carbine classes? Cheap and the class won't shoot past 50 yards
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:37:27 PM EDT
Yes.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:37:36 PM EDT
If your carbine has been eating Wolfe with no problems, I see no reason why. I have a few K of wolfe, but still shoot the PD stuff from SG and Ammoman. My AR's feed and eat Wolfe just the same. Just my .02
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:43:39 PM EDT
Yes. I have never had a problem with Wolf, and have shot thousands of rounds of it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:34:19 PM EDT
As long as your gun will run reliably on it, hell yes.

But it sucks if it starts malfing on you. I typically bring a backup rifle and a cleaning kit to a class.... never needed it, but I would hate to miss out.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:46:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 8:49:03 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]
I have lost count of the number of people I've seen at 3-gun matches who swear up and down that their rifle shoots Wolf .223 great... just before they encounter the Mother of all Malfs in the middle of a huge field stage. The shooting style (rate of fire, shooting positions etc.) that you have previously used Wolf in (e.g. off the bench at the range) is unlikely to match what you will do in the class - more likely the gun will get hotter and be shot for longer without cleaning in the class... these are just the conditions where Wolf shows its true colors.

Not convinced ? Think about it this way: You spend hundreds of dollars on a course fee, and perhaps hundreds more on travel expenses, and you want to cheap out on ammo ? How about this logic instead: You are learning to defend your life, so why not train with the same ammo you will use when the SHTF (I assume you are not thinking Wolf is good combat ammo, right) ?

I wouldn't risk it, and no amount of people saying "I've shot XX thousand rounds with no problems" will ever convince me otherwise... I've just seen too many problems with Wolf on too many guns (including several of my own) to piss away a great learning experience to save a few bucks. Do you really want to leave the class disappointed and thinking to yourself " Wolf Ammo - WHAT WAS I THINKING ???" ?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:47:43 PM EDT
I would suggest trying Barnaul. If your rifle feeds Wolf then it will more than likely feed Barnaul. For training purposes, I would rather train with Barnaul since it has much closer recoil impulses to the mil-spec stuff. I'm not against using Wolf ammo but for training purposes it's best to make your training as close to what you would have in a real world situation. Wolf has low velocity/weak recoil. I wouldn't train with it simply for that reason. If you want to get the most out of the training then use what you would use for a real world situation. If you want somthing cheaper then Barnaul would be as cheap as I would go for training ammo. Widener's has some Barnaul right now for $116/1k.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:56:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
I have lost count of the number of people I've seen at 3-gun matches who swear up and down that their rifle shoots Wolf .223 great... just before they encounter the Mother of all Malfs in the middle of a huge field stage. The shooting style (rate of fire, shooting positions etc.) that you have previously used Wolf in (e.g. off the bench at the range) is unlikely to match what you will do in the class - more likely the gun will get hotter and be shot for longer without cleaning in the class... these are just the conditions where Wolf shows its true colors.

Not convinced ? Think about it this way: You spend hundreds of dollars on a course fee, and perhaps hundreds more on travel expenses, and you want to cheap out on ammo ? How about this logic instead: You are learning to defend your life, so why not train with the same ammo you will use when the SHTF (I assume you are not thinking Wolf is good combat ammo, right) ?

I wouldn't risk it, and no amount of people saying "I've shot XX thousand rounds with no problems" will ever convince me otherwise... I've just seen too many problems with Wolf on too many guns (including several of my own) to piss away a great learning experience to save a few bucks. Do you really want to leave the class disappointed and thinking to yourself " Wolf Ammo - WHAT WAS I THINKING ???" ?



+1
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:15:59 AM EDT
Ugghhh.... If your paying good money for a Carbine class pay a bit more for better ammo. Don't piss off everyone else in your class because you used known to be sub-par ammo... or maybe by day three you will get a blanket party...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:25:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:29:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 7:31:02 AM EDT by photoman]
Yes I have, I've used it in two classes and had no issues. But here is the key, I already knew the gun I was using it in would run reliably with it because I had over 4k though the gun before I took the classes.

If yer gun will run reliably with it it should not be an issue. But you have to know for sure. I won't run Wolf in my SBR for a class because I was having issues with it when I started running the gun hard, like it would be run in a class. It's starting to get better but untill I can put 1k of it through the gun in a simulated class environment with no issues I won't run wolf for a class with this gun.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:01:03 AM EDT
Are you going tyo use Wolf in a life safety situation?

Train like you intend to fight. Plus, wolf is just not as reliable no matter what everyone says. You get what you pay for and decent brass ammo isn't expensive. Don't be that guy that holds up the entire class bc you saved 5 bucks on ammo.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:26:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 9:31:38 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Are you going tyo use Wolf in a life safety situation?

Train like you intend to fight. Plus, wolf is just not as reliable no matter what everyone says. You get what you pay for and decent brass ammo isn't expensive. Don't be that guy that holds up the entire class bc you saved 5 bucks on ammo.




Thats all good and dandy if you can afford to train with the ammo you will use when yer ass is on the line. For me thats not possible.

Black Hills reman 75gr BTHP is $399/1000rds(Midway price)

This year alone that would mean I'd need to buy a minimum of 4k for classes/training

DETC carbine class-1000rds
DETC cold weather carbine- 500rds
Tactical Response HRCC medical class-1500 rds.

That doesn't include the "no fun shoots" that we do here in wisconsin which are class type training environments, each one of those I use 300-500 rounds of carbine, I'll do at least three to four of those this year.

So you can see where using the ammo i'll fight with to take classes and use at training sessions becomes economicly impossible for me. I'd rather take the classes and learn the sklills shooting wolf or another cheaper ammo then what I would use when my ass is on the line. I still will run drills with the 75gr ammo though don't get me wrong, just not a lot. I just can't afford to do everything with the same ammo. I don't know to many pepople that could afford to shoot 12k of premium ammo in a year like it was rage ammo. If you can then more power to you, but most of us can't afford to do that.

Look I can hit a 12x18in steel plate at 400 yards with an 11.5in barrel using 55gr wolf so I don't think that using wolf is going to kill "training like you fight" for me. How I fight has nothing at all to do with what I'm sending down range, and everything to do with the decisions I make while in the fight and the skills and tenchniques I use while in that fight.

In class as long as the ammo is going bang and the rifle is functioning reliably when you pull the trigger thats what matters. As long as yer learning the skills and yer rounds are going where they need to go, thats what matters in class, not what ammo your using. Even with wolf I've found that in class when a round doesn't go where it's suposed to, it's because I fucked up, not because I used wolf or whatever ammo.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:07:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
In class as long as the ammo is going bang and the rifle is functioning reliably when you pull the trigger thats what matters. As long as yer learning the skills and yer rounds are going where they need to go, thats what matters in class, not what ammo your using. Even with wolf I've found that in class when a round doesn't go where it's suposed to, it's because I fucked up, not because I used wolf or whatever ammo.




+1

The first carbine class I took a couple years ago, I ran 55-grain Wolf (polymer-coated) with no problems. Last year, did another class with the same rifle, but tried the 62-grain Wolf and had several FTEs. (There was another guy in the class using Wolf, but I don't remember if he had problems.)

While Wolf is okay for plinking, I'll use brass-cased ammo (like Canned Heat) for further training and XM193 or some of the 75- or 77-grain OTM-loaded ammo for SD stash.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:51:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 10:51:55 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By kato4moto:

Originally Posted By photoman:
In class as long as the ammo is going bang and the rifle is functioning reliably when you pull the trigger thats what matters. As long as yer learning the skills and yer rounds are going where they need to go, thats what matters in class, not what ammo your using. Even with wolf I've found that in class when a round doesn't go where it's suposed to, it's because I fucked up, not because I used wolf or whatever ammo.




+1

The first carbine class I took a couple years ago, I ran 55-grain Wolf (polymer-coated) with no problems. Last year, did another class with the same rifle, but tried the 62-grain Wolf and had several FTEs. (There was another guy in the class using Wolf, but I don't remember if he had problems.)

While Wolf is okay for plinking, I'll use brass-cased ammo (like Canned Heat) for further training and XM193 or some of the 75- or 77-grain OTM-loaded ammo for SD stash.




Been thinking of getting some canned heat to try out since the SBR if finiky with wolf right now. had some issues with XM193PD the other night so I won't touch that stuff anymore.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:30:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arteacher:
I have not had any major issues with Wolf but I am curious if anyone has used it in carbine classes? Cheap and the class won't shoot past 50 yards



My point about Wolf was based on the original post that he had no "major" issues with Wolf, which I read into as meaning he had "some problems" and if he knew 100% that Wolf was reliable in his rifle he wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.

Others here are more sure of their rifle's reliability with Wolf and have no concerns about using Wolf in an expensive, time-limited class.

My point: Don't use it if your not sure! Rifle problems are one thing, and everyone has patience with that, it is part of the reason you take a class... to iron out wrinkles, but everyone gets pissed off when it is ammo related (again, Wolf has a fair to bad rep). Second is crappy, non-USGI mag issues...

I use Wolf at the range, but it would be XM193 or WCC at a class...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:45:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 11:48:38 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By Rmplstlskn:

Originally Posted By arteacher:
I have not had any major issues with Wolf but I am curious if anyone has used it in carbine classes? Cheap and the class won't shoot past 50 yards



My point about Wolf was based on the original post that he had no "major" issues with Wolf, which I read into as meaning he had "some problems" and if he knew 100% that Wolf was reliable in his rifle he wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.

Others here are more sure of their rifle's reliability with Wolf and have no concerns about using Wolf in an expensive, time-limited class.

My point: Don't use it if your not sure! Rifle problems are one thing, and everyone has patience with that, it is part of the reason you take a class... to iron out wrinkles, but everyone gets pissed off when it is ammo related (again, Wolf has a fair to bad rep). Second is crappy, non-USGI mag issues...

I use Wolf at the range, but it would be XM193 or WCC at a class...

Rmpl



I've had no major issues with XM193PD if you don't consider rounds key holeing at under 15yards a major issue. To me it's not a major issue but it's an issue. A round kabooms, thats a major issue, every other round gets stuck in the chamber, thats a major issue.....

I've had "issues" with every type of ammo I've ever shot through my guns but very few "major" issues.

The worst issues Ive ever had with ammo was with some Q3131 where I had primers blow out of about 10 of the 200 rounds thaqt I shot that day. Had about he same number of them the next day. Never had anything near as bad with wolf. Worst I had was some key holeing issues with one case of wolf. Haven't had the issue since. And that was the same wolf ammo my SBR was not handling well either....
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 2:59:03 PM EDT
I would if it ran in my gun okay. Unfortunately the only non-magazine-related malfunctions I've had have been with Wolf. During a 3-Gun match. Right after I talked about how it runs fine in my rifle.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:07:33 PM EDT
I say Canned Heat.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:30:44 PM EDT
Absolutely not.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:49:49 PM EDT
I might if I ever get around to taking a class.

Like one guy said above, I've had more problems with Q3131a than Wolf.

I was having a lot of FTExtracts (i.e. 8 stuck rounds in a 30rd mag) that day.

I switched back to Wolf and the problems went away.

It was probably a fluke, but it made me a believer in Wolf and a skeptic of all big name brands.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:44:06 PM EDT
I'll pass on the Wolf for class
Top Top