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Posted: 12/23/2005 6:59:38 PM EDT
I have a springfield M1A loaded with a NM barrel that I had bought a bunch of SA 308 battle packs for since it was cheap and seemed to be highly recomended by many. All I can say is my M1A does not like it one bit. I think my chamber is to tight for it or something because I keep getting FTEs with the brass being stuck in the chamber fairly tightly. The M1A shoots like a champ with civi IMI amerc ammo and fed. Anyone else had such problems with the SA 308?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:07:06 PM EDT
not me. i have shot it thru my FAL and M1a SOCOM with no issues.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:15:20 PM EDT
My Socom 16 loves it.... I have shot just about every kind of ammo through my 16 and SA works best for surplus.

Slug-O
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:17:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 7:23:01 PM EDT by Xenogy]
Well I don't know anything about M1As but when I hear anything with a name "national match" it usually means it's got tighter tolerances and most likely chambered to .308. Somone shooting a precision rifle is going to be using top of the line .308 and handloads not the cheap blasting ammo. NATO 7.62 chambers allow clearance for dirt and sand. Your National Match probably doesn't allow clearance for anything other than a clean chambered .308 round.

SA ammo is 7.62x51 NATO. NATO ammo has thicker brass and I believe the rims are thicker because military extractors are hard on brass and chuck brass a good distance. This could be giving your extractor problems as well. Maybe if you install a standard M1A extractor it will solve some problems. Edit: Ok noticed you have standard extractor. (M1A w/ NM barrel installed) Sounds like a chamber issue to me. I haven't had any problems with SA ammo in my FAL but it's chambered to 7.62x51

Just some suggestions. There will probably be an M1A expert come along and have a better solution or answer.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:17:46 PM EDT
Could the NM barrel have a slightly tighter chamber? I just cant figure out why I am have such rotten luck with it in that gun.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:37:21 PM EDT
You may want to pick up some other kind of 7.62x51 NATO as well to test just to make sure. Get two different kinds and if neither works it's your chamber. If both work then your M1A just doesn't like SA.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:45:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Xenogy:
You may want to pick up some other kind of 7.62x51 NATO as well to test just to make sure. Get two different kinds and if neither works it's your chamber. If both work then your M1A just doesn't like SA.



yeah I will probably buy me some other surpluss stuff and some LC and see what happens. Then I will try and trade off all my SA308 since it is pretty useless to me right now. It does run great with reg consumer ammo though but that gets to exp to shoot.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:20:13 AM EDT
Headspacing is the issue, apparently.
See here.

http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25311

My Standard M1A had a tag on it which indicated the headspace that Springfiled Armory set before she left the factory (It's too early in the day for me to know if I'm alive, otherwise I would go look for it ! )

SA 7.62 is all I have shot out of mine, about 400 rounds so far without issue.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 2:42:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 2:48:11 AM EDT by BIG-DOG]
I have a loaded M1A and have shot a few battlepacks of SA without any problems , but It definately doesn't shoot very well in mine. Isn't very accurate and is too dirty. I also have read on a few forums lately that the cases in some batches are sticking and not ejecting properly. I have had the best luck with Port, Aussie and FN in that order. The Port is still readily available, you might want to give some of that a try. The LC is very good too if you can find it for a good price.

BD

Check out this thread

http://www.m-14forum.com/showthread.php?t=15804
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:36:10 AM EDT

A few years back I had some SA get stuck in my AR10 chamber...figured it was the ammo so I didn't get any more. LAst year I decided to try some more and it works fine. Go figure. YMMV
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:28:42 AM EDT
I had the same problem with British L2A2 surplus. Just picked up 2 SA battle packs yesterday as plinking ammo so I can save my Hirt. I hope it works OK.....
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:25:54 PM EDT
Jeff-1
When I had my NM barrel on the M1A, it was stamped ".308 NM." It ran best when I used Federal .308 or ran my own loads through it. I was getting sub M.O.A. groups at 100 yds. with a 6x scope using a rest. Surplus ammo didn't group well compared to the .308 ammo. Those who are guessing tight chamber are correct. IIRC, the .308 stamp on your barrel should be forward of the hand guard on the bottom. I eroded the throat of my NM and opted for a new 1963 TRW G.I. barrel which is stamped 7.62 x 51. It's not as accurate, but the chrome lining should give me better life and the rascal chews through anything I feed it.

IMHO, if you've got a match barrel, treat it with some respect and it will give you great accuracy. From what my 'Smith told me, don't be too fast on the trigger and it will give you reasonably long life. (7000- 10,000 rounds.) If you get too itchy with the trigger, you'll erode the throat in about 3500 rounds. Take it from somebody who found out.

YMMV

Groucho
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:39:14 PM EDT
Usually with headspace issues you won't have it locking into battery or you have case necks splitting. Does your bolt lock firmly into battery? If so then it's gotta be the chamber.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:41:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bjwar10:
A few years back I had some SA get stuck in my AR10 chamber...figured it was the ammo so I didn't get any more. LAst year I decided to try some more and it works fine. Go figure. YMMV



For yours it sounds like a headspace issue. Sounds like it loosened up so that you didn't have problems when you shot SA last year.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:18:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Xenogy:
Usually with headspace issues you won't have it locking into battery or you have case necks splitting. Does your bolt lock firmly into battery? If so then it's gotta be the chamber.



It seems to go into battery just fine it just has a problem extracting alot of the time with the SA. I figured it was due to a tight chamber.


Any how this is my first M1A and it is a nice one with a wilson combat OD green finish on all the metal and a camoed fiberglass stock. I got it on a trade of a colt a2 plus a little cash.


Thanks for the responses, I am pretty sure I am just going to have to be a little more paticular on the ammo for it. I guess I might as well scope it also
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:33:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 4:06:37 AM EDT
I just shot my NIB National Match last week. Tag said headspace was 1.6315. I shot about 30 rounds of British through it, it was grouping about 1" at 100. I had one case stick that took a good whack to rack the bolt...I just ordered some SA, i hope it shoots good. from what i've read, the military surp has thicker cases, shooting domestic ammo may result in case seperation..?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 5:46:10 AM EDT
I'm not much help,but I had the same problem yesterday.

The boy's and I went and did some Christmas eve shooting and my M1A did the exact same thing,was using South African ammo and had two rounds FTE,this is a new criterion barrel from LRB arms with 560 rounds down the tube.

Both cases were stuck in the chamber very tightly.

She's going to back the smith this week for a check-up,I'll let ya know what he find's.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:30:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 7:37:26 AM EDT by norwood]
I noticed the same thing while shooting SA in my FAL. I had switched the gas system off, and was ejecting the cases manually using the charging handle. With Australian surplus ammo, I could do this as easily as ejecting unfired rounds. With SA surplus, (which was very accurate, by the way), about 1 out of every 2 cases would "stick", and I would have to hit the butt of the rifle on the ground to free them.

Examining these cases, I noticed that the "neck sealant" had, upon firing, oozed slightly between the chamber wall and the case mouth, "gluing" them in. Apparently, there was a certain amount of force that it took to break that bond and free them, which I was unable to achieve by hand pulling on the charging handle. (Think of trying to swing a hammer when there is only enough space to move it one inch).

The SA ammo was designed for a FAL, where the tilting bolt is in a heavy carrier that has been accelerated by the gas piston to it's maximum speed before it grabs the bolt and starts to eject the case. In this environment it usually works fine.

I could see there being a problem using it in a rifle having a different style gas system, (M1A or AR-10), or one having a tighter chamber in the area around the case mouth. I could also see that different ammo lots might have more or less sealant, so you might want to try some with a different date.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:21:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norwood:


I could see there being a problem using it in a rifle having a different style gas system, (M1A or AR-10), or one having a tighter chamber in the area around the case mouth. I could also see that different ammo lots might have more or less sealant, so you might want to try some with a different date.



I was giving that a thought but I didnt want to bust open another battle pack and it end up not working. I guess it wont hurt anything and at least I can see if different lots do the same. I have several on hand.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 2:49:20 PM EDT
Maybe you need to sell me that SA ammo and pick up something else.
Where are you located in OK?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 5:06:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Clint50:
Maybe you need to sell me that SA ammo and pick up something else.
Where are you located in OK?



I am in pontotoc county which is kinda SE Ok. You?


I will unload it to somebody for sure and tell them why. If I still have it in the spring I get rid of it at the Hun Farm if I get to go. Anyway I am not to worried about getting rid of it because I know people will buy it from me for what I paid for it.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 5:28:29 PM EDT
SA 308 is all I've got for my Congo para so a little more wouldn't hurt.
I'm located in Wichita Falls.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 5:58:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Clint50:
SA 308 is all I've got for my Congo para so a little more wouldn't hurt.
I'm located in Wichita Falls.



you been to the Farm? Its not that far from Wichita Falls.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:55:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jeff_1:

Originally Posted By Clint50:
SA 308 is all I've got for my Congo para so a little more wouldn't hurt.
I'm located in Wichita Falls.


you been to the Farm? Its not that far from Wichita Falls.


I had planned to attend the last Farm shoot but unfortunately,a family matter kept me from it,Jeff.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:08:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Clint50:

Originally Posted By Jeff_1:

Originally Posted By Clint50:
SA 308 is all I've got for my Congo para so a little more wouldn't hurt.
I'm located in Wichita Falls.


you been to the Farm? Its not that far from Wichita Falls.


I had planned to attend the last Farm shoot but unfortunately,a family matter kept me from it,Jeff.



wel then keep an ey out for this spring, if we both make it I will give you first dibs on my SA battle packs
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 6:09:55 AM EDT

I've run a bunch of SA 7.62x51 through both of my SA Super Match rifles with no issues.
Send it back to Springfield Armory. They stand behind their warranty. I do seem to remember an issue with improperly finished (read: Rough) chambers a while back.


regards,
700P
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:53:16 PM EDT
Well I just ordered 1 pack for a test run on my standard M1A (TRW GI barrel). Fingers crossed.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:51:46 AM EDT
I talked with my smith yesterday and he say's could be the ammo or a rough chamber,he recomended switching ammo or a 60.00 hone and polishing of the chamber.

I'm gonna try different ammo first. HTH.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:26:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bthp223:
I talked with my smith yesterday and he say's could be the ammo or a rough chamber,he recomended switching ammo or a 60.00 hone and polishing of the chamber.

I'm gonna try different ammo first. HTH.



yeah, I already know that a couple of factory civi loads run perfectly so i am just going to try some other stuff out and if it all works good I will just stop useing SA ammo. If I have some problems with other types of ammo then I may have the gun checked out.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:46:55 PM EDT
I own a National Match M1A with the same barrel. My rifle loves the SA surplus - extremely accurate and never a problem in several hundred rounds. Sorry to hear your's doesn't like it.

-K
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:04:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jeff_1:
I have a springfield M1A loaded with a NM barrel that I had bought a bunch of SA 308 battle packs for since it was cheap and seemed to be highly recomended by many. All I can say is my M1A does not like it one bit. I think my chamber is to tight for it or something because I keep getting FTEs with the brass being stuck in the chamber fairly tightly. The M1A shoots like a champ with civi IMI amerc ammo and fed. Anyone else had such problems with the SA 308?hr


Jeff,
I have a Spingfield National Match I bought new about 2-3 years ago. I thought it would be the ultimate tack driver. I shot Port. ammo through it and it did exactly what you are talking about. I then bought some Federal ammo with the same result. Next I put it away in the back of my safe for about 2years. Finally one day about 6 months ago, I emailed Springfield. They said to send it back and they would reimburse me for the shipping. It returned about 3 weeks later. They polished the feedramp (very nice job), replaced the op rod and recrowned the barrel. They recommeded Black Hills Match ammo (168gr). That is all I will shoot through her now and the results have been wonderful. I bought a M1A Scout with a camo stock that I shoot surplus ammo through without any problems. Springfield really took care of me, no questions asked. Hope you get her fixed.
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