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Posted: 12/22/2005 10:24:17 AM EDT
i am about to put together this build and I have a US Optics glass to top it off, considering the weather, I asked this question and got good answers. Appreciate it fellas, now I have some more

When I go out to see what my rifle shoots the best, in regards to grain and manufact., (reloading isn't an option right now), how should I proceed for this target rifle (not hunting).

Should I buy an individual box of ammo for each type of bullet I want to test? And shoot each type of bullet (3 or 5 round groups) at 100 yards, 200 yards, 300, yards, 400, and so on?

Or is there ONE safe distance I can shoot each bullet at to see how it peforms across the spectrum of distance? Longest I plan on shooting is 600 yards MAX, so could I shoot at 300 yards and use that as the discriminator for all the different rounds I want to test?

hope this makes sense, i saved alot for this scope/rifle, I want to ensure I find out what round truly wants to be intimate with my rifle and I.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:32:10 PM EDT
If you can find a 600yd range then you better go to it for your test even if it means driving a hundred miles or so. Firing at 300yds for everything is only for guess work. Sounds like you are dumping a bunch of money into this target rifle and you better do your homework correctly or you will regret it. Also 3-5 shot groups will not suffice for your project. I never use 3 shot groups to determine anything. Sure it looks good on paper and even an AK can put a 3 shot group within an inch if you try long enough. You will need (as a minimum) atleast 2 ten shot groups or 4 five shot groups at each range with each type of ammo you use. You want to eliminate every variable you can. Take your time and let your barrel cool between shots and only load one round at a time. This seems to help me out and also helps the rifle cool quicker by having the bolt locked to the rear after each shot. Also ammo performs differently at different ranges. While brand A may print 1/2 MOA at 100yds and brand B prints 1 MOA at 100yds it may be different at 600yds. You could have Brand A doing 3 MOA while brand B will continue to do 1 MOA
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:36:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Xenogy:
If you can find a 600yd range then you better go to it for your test even if it means driving a hundred miles or so. Firing at 300yds for everything is only for guess work. Sounds like you are dumping a bunch of money into this target rifle and you better do your homework correctly or you will regret it. Also 3-5 shot groups will not suffice for your project. I never use 3 shot groups to determine anything. Sure it looks good on paper and even an AK can put a 3 shot group within an inch if you try long enough. You will need (as a minimum) atleast 2 ten shot groups or 4 five shot groups at each range with each type of ammo you use. You want to eliminate every variable you can. Take your time and let your barrel cool between shots and only load one round at a time. This seems to help me out and also helps the rifle cool quicker by having the bolt locked to the rear after each shot. Also ammo performs differently at different ranges. While brand A may print 1/2 MOA at 100yds and brand B prints 1 MOA at 100yds it may be different at 600yds. You could have Brand A doing 3 MOA while brand B will continue to do 1 MOA



Thanks for the info bud, (ref the red above), that is exactly what I want to avoid.

So, get the ammo I want to test, and shoot 4 x5 shot groupds or 2 x10 shot groupds at 600 with all the brands (this would entail a couple of days of shooting to space it out properly). One shot at a time, give enough time to rest the barrel and the shooter, and whatever groups best, proceed to develope the BDC for that round to use on 50,100,200,300, so on markers?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:11:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 4:12:07 PM EDT by DevL]
Shoot at 100 yards. This will eliminate wind as a factor. Shoot 4X 5 round groups of every ammo you might want to try AFTER a 200 round break in of your barrel to be sure its consistant. Your barrel will improve in accuracy quite a bit over 200 rounds so you dont want to think brand 1 is worse than brand 10 because you have a better broken in barrel at the end of 200 rounds. You should have an idea of what is in the "not acceptable" group at that point by seeing the 100 yard results. Get a couple more boxes of the ammo that makes the grade on the first round and test at them at 100 and 200 yards 4X 5 shot groups each. You should be down to 2 or 3 ammo choices by that point. The BC of the bullet and velocity will come into play for the remaining choices. Go shoot those at 300 yards and see which has less drop and deflection due to wind and pick that one. 300+ yards the ability to buck wind and have less drop over an unknown distance is more important than .1 MOA difference in accuracy.

Honestly though, if you are that concerned with accuracy I would just handload if I were you. You will blow away most any factory ammo.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:42:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Shoot at 100 yards. This will eliminate wind as a factor. Shoot 4X 5 round groups of every ammo you might want to try AFTER a 200 round break in of your barrel to be sure its consistant. Your barrel will improve in accuracy quite a bit over 200 rounds so you dont want to think brand 1 is worse than brand 10 because you have a better broken in barrel at the end of 200 rounds. You should have an idea of what is in the "not acceptable" group at that point by seeing the 100 yard results. Get a couple more boxes of the ammo that makes the grade on the first round and test at them at 100 and 200 yards 4X 5 shot groups each. You should be down to 2 or 3 ammo choices by that point. The BC of the bullet and velocity will come into play for the remaining choices. Go shoot those at 300 yards and see which has less drop and deflection due to wind and pick that one. 300+ yards the ability to buck wind and have less drop over an unknown distance is more important than .1 MOA difference in accuracy.

Honestly though, if you are that concerned with accuracy I would just handload if I were you. You will blow away most any factory ammo.



Thanks for the info DevL. I hadn't even factored in yet the barrel break in. Not to get into the 'cleaning debate' that usually occurs but does it matter what I break in my barrel with? Just as long as I clean regularly and get the burs out?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:38:08 PM EDT
I saw a big deviation between different brands/weights, etc.

But, try at 100 yards for a 5 shot group. You should see most of the POI change.

Pick your top three, then go out to 300 yards.

Tada!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:58:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chromeluv:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Shoot at 100 yards. This will eliminate wind as a factor. Shoot 4X 5 round groups of every ammo you might want to try AFTER a 200 round break in of your barrel to be sure its consistant. Your barrel will improve in accuracy quite a bit over 200 rounds so you dont want to think brand 1 is worse than brand 10 because you have a better broken in barrel at the end of 200 rounds. You should have an idea of what is in the "not acceptable" group at that point by seeing the 100 yard results. Get a couple more boxes of the ammo that makes the grade on the first round and test at them at 100 and 200 yards 4X 5 shot groups each. You should be down to 2 or 3 ammo choices by that point. The BC of the bullet and velocity will come into play for the remaining choices. Go shoot those at 300 yards and see which has less drop and deflection due to wind and pick that one. 300+ yards the ability to buck wind and have less drop over an unknown distance is more important than .1 MOA difference in accuracy.

Honestly though, if you are that concerned with accuracy I would just handload if I were you. You will blow away most any factory ammo.



Thanks for the info DevL. I hadn't even factored in yet the barrel break in. Not to get into the 'cleaning debate' that usually occurs but does it matter what I break in my barrel with? Just as long as I clean regularly and get the burs out?



That's it, after the 200 or so rounds it should be broke in. No need to clean after every round or so, unless it makes you feel better. You might want to clean it after the initial 200 before you get into the testing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:17:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:

Originally Posted By chromeluv:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Shoot at 100 yards. This will eliminate wind as a factor. Shoot 4X 5 round groups of every ammo you might want to try AFTER a 200 round break in of your barrel to be sure its consistant. Your barrel will improve in accuracy quite a bit over 200 rounds so you dont want to think brand 1 is worse than brand 10 because you have a better broken in barrel at the end of 200 rounds. You should have an idea of what is in the "not acceptable" group at that point by seeing the 100 yard results. Get a couple more boxes of the ammo that makes the grade on the first round and test at them at 100 and 200 yards 4X 5 shot groups each. You should be down to 2 or 3 ammo choices by that point. The BC of the bullet and velocity will come into play for the remaining choices. Go shoot those at 300 yards and see which has less drop and deflection due to wind and pick that one. 300+ yards the ability to buck wind and have less drop over an unknown distance is more important than .1 MOA difference in accuracy.

Honestly though, if you are that concerned with accuracy I would just handload if I were you. You will blow away most any factory ammo.



Thanks for the info DevL. I hadn't even factored in yet the barrel break in. Not to get into the 'cleaning debate' that usually occurs but does it matter what I break in my barrel with? Just as long as I clean regularly and get the burs out?



That's it, after the 200 or so rounds it should be broke in. No need to clean after every round or so, unless it makes you feel better. You might want to clean it after the initial 200 before you get into the testing.



roger, thats what I was thinking. Clean after the first 100 and then again after the second hundred..
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:21:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 8:22:18 PM EDT by Xenogy]
Guess I assumed you already had it broken in. After 200rds and a cleaning you should be good to go.

You could do cleaning after 100 then after 200 if you want. I shoot the cheap WWB for break in and go for the heaviest rounds with the cheapest price.

Cleaning too much will cause unnecesary wear to your bore. Any company that issues instructions to clean after each round is full of it. They just want you to wear your bore down so you have to come back for a replacement barrel even sooner. All good info in the posts above.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:15:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Xenogy:
Guess I assumed you already had it broken in. After 200rds and a cleaning you should be good to go.

You could do cleaning after 100 then after 200 if you want. I shoot the cheap WWB for break in and go for the heaviest rounds with the cheapest price.

Cleaning too much will cause unnecesary wear to your bore. Any company that issues instructions to clean after each round is full of it. They just want you to wear your bore down so you have to come back for a replacement barrel even sooner. All good info in the posts above.



Roger, thanks fellas. One thing I do remember reading is that krieger didn't recommend breaking in "their" barrels with WWB? Whats the reasoning behind that?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:39:00 AM EDT
My guess would be because it's a bit dirtier than premium ammo. I don't think it really makes a difference. All the WWB that I have shot has been 100% reliable from start to finish.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:46:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Xenogy:
My guess would be because it's a bit dirtier than premium ammo. I don't think it really makes a difference. All the WWB that I have shot has been 100% reliable from start to finish.




I shoot nothing buy WWB through my chrome barrel in my carbine, but this new AR i am putting together is my first venture out into the 'match' world and I would like to invest in and protect my stainless barrel as much as possible, want to make sure, once again, I do it right.
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