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Posted: 12/20/2005 4:22:44 PM EDT
If so, where?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:14:29 PM EDT
Bump
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:29:46 PM EDT
^
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:23:16 PM EDT
Yeah that stuff is the best on glass.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 10:15:27 PM EDT
You could join the force.....
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 1:12:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colt100:
You could join the force.....



Yeah, but should I HAVE to?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:54:25 AM EDT
Good luck, this is the ammo I was planning on replacing my Hornady 60 Gr TAP with as a carry load. The Federal Bonded is VERY expensive and hard to come by, though I have no doubt that it is very good ammo. Instead, I am going to go with the Hornady 62 Gr TAP barrier round, which unfortunately for some it's also LE only but about half the price.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:11:20 AM EDT
i cant say about elsewhere, but in MN you can buy LEO stuff if you are in armed security like me
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:16:45 PM EDT
They sell the 55gr version as a hunting load. It performce nearly identical to the 62gr version.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:27:05 PM EDT
The Federal Trophy Bonded round performs the same on glass / vehicles; but available as 55 gr round. Be prepared to spend alot for it though.

OB_1
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:57:41 AM EDT
This thread is indicative of the problem we, as armed citizens, face today. It is has become accepted and encouraged that certain things be only for Law Enforcement or security which really translates into Government Only. This country has gotten upside down. It should be the citizens who decide what the government gets, not the other way around. Honestly, if any of you were going to leave a weapon for your loved ones to defend themselves with, wouldn't you want them to have the best gear and ammo YOU can afford, not what somebody says is okay for you to have? Maybe I've jumped clean off the reservation with this post, but I realy doubt it. I believe that one day, this country is going to need an armed citizenry just to make it through the day, and, if we're not careful, we are going to find out that we've allowed ourselves to get put behind the eight-ball. That will be a sad day.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:12:37 PM EDT
So what is the difference between the LEO 55 grain load and the Bear Claw 55 hunting load?

Thanks
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:30:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigcountry:
This thread is indicative of the problem we, as armed citizens subjects, face today. It is has become accepted and encouraged that certain things be only for Law Enforcement or security which really translates into Government Only. This country has gotten upside down. It should be the citizens who decide what the government gets, not the other way around. Honestly, if any of you were going to leave a weapon for your loved ones to defend themselves with, wouldn't you want them to have the best gear and ammo YOU can afford, not what somebody says is okay for you to have? Maybe I've jumped clean off the reservation with this post, but I realy doubt it. I believe that one day, this country is going to need an armed citizenry just to make it through the day, and, if we're not careful, we are going to find out that we've allowed ourselves to get put behind the eight-ball. That will be a sad day.



This is really where it is heading
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:10:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigcountry:
This thread is indicative of the problem we, as armed citizens, face today. has



+1
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:21:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
So what is the difference between the LEO 55 grain load and the Bear Claw 55 hunting load?

Thanks



The civilian has a nickled case. LEO is brass.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:04:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By CRC:
So what is the difference between the LEO 55 grain load and the Bear Claw 55 hunting load?

Thanks



The civilian has a nickled case. LEO is brass.



I think you have it backwards...
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:36:22 AM EDT
And why aren't you investigating LOADING YOUR OWN "magic bullets". Bonded core bullets are sold as components, so having such loads is just a matter of initiative. Some things can not be had in an "instant gratification" manner...

Paladin
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 10:14:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 10:15:45 AM EDT by VAPORTRAIL]

The Federal Premium 55 gr TBBC, has Nickle plated cases.
Federal markets them as Vital-Shok. Load # P223T2
I have a box of them in front of me right now.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:57:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VAPORTRAIL:
The Federal Premium 55 gr TBBC, has Nickle plated cases.
Federal markets them as Vital-Shok. Load # P223T2
I have a box of them in front of me right now.



Cool thanks!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:04:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
Good luck, this is the ammo I was planning on replacing my Hornady 60 Gr TAP with as a carry load. The Federal Bonded is VERY expensive and hard to come by, though I have no doubt that it is very good ammo. Instead, I am going to go with the Hornady 62 Gr TAP barrier round, which unfortunately for some it's also LE only but about half the price.



Just out of curiosity why do you want TAP Barrier as a carry round?

Tap Barrier was made to shoot through steel doors and still be terminal after passing through one. It's is good for shooting someone who is sitting in a car or behind a steel door but I don't know if I would use it as my primary carry load. I would definetly keep a mag or two aside for when something like that happens but not for a primary load.

I would just go with some 75gr TAP and keep some Barrier on the side. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:17:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By CRC:
So what is the difference between the LEO 55 grain load and the Bear Claw 55 hunting load?

Thanks



The civilian has a nickled case. LEO is brass.



I think you have it backwards...



No, he got it right, Civilian has nickle case. I have some.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 6:41:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WMHM4:

Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
Good luck, this is the ammo I was planning on replacing my Hornady 60 Gr TAP with as a carry load. The Federal Bonded is VERY expensive and hard to come by, though I have no doubt that it is very good ammo. Instead, I am going to go with the Hornady 62 Gr TAP barrier round, which unfortunately for some it's also LE only but about half the price.



Just out of curiosity why do you want TAP Barrier as a carry round?

Tap Barrier was made to shoot through steel doors and still be terminal after passing through one. It's is good for shooting someone who is sitting in a car or behind a steel door but I don't know if I would use it as my primary carry load. I would definetly keep a mag or two aside for when something like that happens but not for a primary load.

I would just go with some 75gr TAP and keep some Barrier on the side. Just my opinion.



Our department prohibits us from carrying anything other than a 55 or 62 grain load. If it was up to me, I would be carrying a heavier load but this is what I am stuck with. Being a trooper, I am more likely to come into contact with subjects inside vehicles and I think that the barrier round would suit me better. But I will still have some mags with the 60 gr TAP around.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 7:56:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigcountry:
It should be the citizens who decide what the government gets, not the other way around. hr



Last time I checked Federal, Hornady, Winchester and other companies who manufacture products and choose to sell them only to government and police are run by citizens, just like you and me. Wile you, or I for that matter, may not like the fact that they choose not to sell certain ammo to us, that doesn't make it the governments fault.

If you don't like the sales policies they adopt, then don't buy their products and let them know why.


And another thing, it is the ciitizens who decide what the government and military get. Everyone in the government and military is a citizen of this country, just like you and me.

Not to mention your above statement is impossible to achive. Because you differentiate the government from the citizens you make it impossible for citizens to effect government. By your definition as soon as a citizen has the power to tell government what it can or can't have, he becomes the government, and therefore is no longer a citizen, a classic catch-22.

It is our citizens who make up the government, new ones step forward everyday to take the mantel of running the country for us. It is our job to insure that they do the work we asked them to, either by working to elect them, working to fire them or stepping forward ourselves if we believe we can do the job better.



Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:43:09 PM EDT
Don't know for sure on the 62 grn Tactical cases, Our agency uses the 55 grn Tactical XM223T1 Federal , it cost us about a Dollar a round, I have 1,000 rounds and all of this ammo is Nickel cases with NATO headstamp with blackend tip bullet.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:00:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 12:15:42 AM EDT by dpmmn]




Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:12:56 AM EDT
Give these guys a call/email. They don't post prices on their site, but seem to have other "hard to find items" @ reasonable prices. www.miragetechnologies.net/Florida%20Bullet,%20Inc.htm IF they have it let us know the price. SO, we don't all have to bug them for the same thing.

These guys have what they call FC-223LET3 www.streichers.com/ProductDetail.aspx?Catalog=Guns%20and%20Ammo&Category=AMMO_TACT&Prod=FC-223LET for $27.50/bx.

Let me know if these help.

Happy New Year,

FB
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:05:58 AM EDT
I believe you missed my point EvilBob. Have you read Animal Farm by George Orwell?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:06:14 AM EDT
4 legs good 2 legs bad?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:13:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
If so, where?



Mirage Tech has the Federal LE223T1 (55gr) and LE223T3 (62gr) for $22.00/20 or $200/200 + shipping.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:13:59 AM EDT
That's how it started. In the end the geese chanted "Two legs good, four legs bad." Then the pigs stood on two legs, laughed with the farmer, and you could not tell one from the other.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:46:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 6:50:24 PM EDT by nvcdl]
A few years ago in Guns magazine "Gunwriter" Charles Petty wrote an article and in it defended/rationilized federal's anti-civilian stand on their tactical ammo - he said civilians had no need to shot thru car windows and we should be happy with their "personal defense" line.

He got bent out of shape when I wrote a letter to the editor critizing his stand - called me a gorilla or somehing similar.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:47:58 AM EDT
Does anyone know what bullet is used in Hornady's 60 gr TAP Barrier ammo? There are several 60 gr choices in their bullet catalog. Is it any one of them, or is this some kind of "police only" bullet?

In any case, the 7 grain difference between the 55 and 62 grain Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claws can probably be overcome with the higher velocity of the 55 grainer.

And there are other .224" bonded super bullets out there that I bet, when properly motivated, will match or exceed the performance of the "tactical" stuff. The Nosler 60 gr Partition and the Swift 75 gr Scirocco come to mind.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:50:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nvcdl:
A few years ago in Guns magazine "Gunwriter" Charles Petty wrote an article and in it defended/rationilized federal's anti-civilian stand on their tactical ammo - he said civilians had no need to shot thru car windows and we should be happy with their "personal defense" line.


I clip his articles out of American Rifleman for emergenct TP.

What a POS.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:31:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 5:32:25 AM EDT by INTrooper4255]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Does anyone know what bullet is used in Hornady's 60 gr TAP Barrier ammo? There are several 60 gr choices in their bullet catalog. Is it any one of them, or is this some kind of "police only" bullet?

In any case, the 7 grain difference between the 55 and 62 grain Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claws can probably be overcome with the higher velocity of the 55 grainer.

And there are other .224" bonded super bullets out there that I bet, when properly motivated, will match or exceed the performance of the "tactical" stuff. The Nosler 60 gr Partition and the Swift 75 gr Scirocco come to mind.




It is actually a misprint on Hornady's part, the barrier round is actually a 62 grain soft point. I don't know who manufactures the soft point bullet for them or if they do, but this is the load that I am going to replace my standard Hornady TAP round with. If you need any information on the TAP barrier round, I got my hands on some of their ballistic testing data and I am willing to share. Just shoot me and IM or email.

Ben
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:12:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nvcdl:
A few years ago in Guns magazine "Gunwriter" Charles Petty wrote an article and in it defended/rationilized federal's anti-civilian stand on their tactical ammo - he said civilians had no need to shot thru car windows and we should be happy with their "personal defense" line.

He got bent out of shape when I wrote a letter to the editor critizing his stand - called me a gorilla or somehing similar.



I think the whole "LE Only" stance stems from the old Black Talon backlash. I don't know all the details but the media spin wasn't good. Not sure if anyone is willing to risk that anymore.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:35:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PALADIN-hgwt:
And why aren't you investigating LOADING YOUR OWN "magic bullets". Bonded core bullets are sold as components, so having such loads is just a matter of initiative. Some things can not be had in an "instant gratification" manner...

Paladin



Eggzzzackly! I have in front of me some new all copper Barnes TSX component bullets in both 53 grain flatbase and 70 grain boattail. These are IMO the ultimate controlled expansion projectiles. They quickly expand yet hold together to penetrate very well due to near 100% retained weight. I got the 70 grain just to try in the SEBR but the 53's with their higher velocity MAY be a better choice. I'd choose these over any overpriced factory loads when it counts. The Barnes ARE expensive too but a far more durable projectile. They're worth it to me but as always... YMMV. Bruce
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:48:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oulufinn:

Originally Posted By PALADIN-hgwt:
And why aren't you investigating LOADING YOUR OWN "magic bullets". Bonded core bullets are sold as components, so having such loads is just a matter of initiative. Some things can not be had in an "instant gratification" manner...

Paladin



Eggzzzackly! I have in front of me some new all copper Barnes TSX component bullets in both 53 grain flatbase and 70 grain boattail. These are IMO the ultimate controlled expansion projectiles. They quickly expand yet hold together to penetrate very well due to near 100% retained weight. I got the 70 grain just to try in the SEBR but the 53's with their higher velocity MAY be a better choice. I'd choose these over any overpriced factory loads when it counts. The Barnes ARE expensive too but a far more durable projectile. They're worth it to me but as always... YMMV. Bruce


Good choice. I forgot about those. Them fuckers will penetrate like nobody's business.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By oulufinn:

Originally Posted By PALADIN-hgwt:
And why aren't you investigating LOADING YOUR OWN "magic bullets". Bonded core bullets are sold as components, so having such loads is just a matter of initiative. Some things can not be had in an "instant gratification" manner...

Paladin



Eggzzzackly! I have in front of me some new all copper Barnes TSX component bullets in both 53 grain flatbase and 70 grain boattail. These are IMO the ultimate controlled expansion projectiles. They quickly expand yet hold together to penetrate very well due to near 100% retained weight. I got the 70 grain just to try in the SEBR but the 53's with their higher velocity MAY be a better choice. I'd choose these over any overpriced factory loads when it counts. The Barnes ARE expensive too but a far more durable projectile. They're worth it to me but as always... YMMV. Bruce


Good choice. I forgot about those. Them fuckers will penetrate like nobody's business.



Yup! For the folks who had problems with the older Barnes X, the new TSX give lower pressures and open up more reliably. IMO, They got it right and are first rate. WWW.BARNESBULLETS.COM
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:04:27 PM EDT
There's an Elmer Fudd type forum called accuratereloading.com, where a lot of people have been reporting outstanding accuracy and lethality with the Triple-X, along with much less copper fouling compared to the old X.

I agree that Barnes hit it out of the park. I need to buy a box of 140 grain 6.5 mm to try in my Elmer Fudd rifle.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:39:46 PM EDT
Another good "Elmer Fudd" type forum ((LOL)) is 24hourcampfire.com. Lotsa good folks over there and a lot of TSX users as well. One suggestion I would make is to use a lighter than 140 gr. in the TSX, they seem to like a higher velocity and stay together so well that there is no downside to a lighter pill from what I've seen so far in performance on 4 feral hogs and 3 Whitetail Deer.
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