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Posted: 12/13/2005 5:20:32 PM EDT
I have about 5000 rounds of Winchester Q3131A but ZERO rounds of M855. I'm considering selling 1000 rounds of my Q3131A to pick up 900 rounds of the WCC M855 that Bigbore is selling. I'll have to pony up about $50-60 to get the M855 though.

So I guess my main question, is the M855 worth it for me to sell some of my Q3131A? If I didn't have my snowboarding habit, I would just buy some of the ammo. But with Christmas and a snowboarding trip coming up, I just don't have the extra fundage to swing $250 for ammo.

Any OPINIONS would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-X
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:26:53 PM EDT
I say sell the 1000 rnds of Q3131A.


What cha want for it?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Black-X:
I have about 5000 rounds of Winchester Q3131A but ZERO rounds of M855. I'm considering selling 1000 rounds of my Q3131A to pick up 900 rounds of the WCC M855 that Bigbore is selling. I'll have to pony up about $50-60 to get the M855 though.

So I guess my main question, is the M855 worth it for me to sell some of my Q3131A? If I didn't have my snowboarding habit, I would just buy some of the ammo. But with Christmas and a snowboarding trip coming up, I just don't have the extra fundage to swing $250 for ammo.

Any OPINIONS would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

-X



Look at some of the ADCOM stuff,. 1k/170
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:23:58 PM EDT
My advice is to keep your Q3131A and aquire some M855 when you get the money, if you desire.
M193 type ammo is a better defensive cartridge and has superior penetration at "defensive" ranges because of its increased velocity. Unless you are engaging a well equipped enemy equipped with body armor at distances greater than 100 yards M855 has nothing to offer you...
Against unarmored enemies M193 is a better choice. M855 would have been an exceptional round if the cold war ever turned hot with the Soviets and it will be a great round when we fight the Chinese, however as a civilian facing unarmored targets at defensive ranges, it doesn't offer anything over M193 except for increased price per round and reduced lethality and penetration.
If you really want some M855 save your money and buy some, but don't sacrafice 1k of superior rounds just to obtain some bullets that are superior in your theory.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:44:13 PM EDT
unclez, I was thinking around $200-ish shipped if shipping isn't too bad.

I may look at the adcom stuff, but I am highly impressed with the look of the WCC bigbore is selling. I figure the adcom will be around for a while, but who knows with the 04' WCC that's out right now...

Ryno_the_wyno, I appreciate the input. I don't forsee myself being able to buy any until mid-late January unfortunately. The stuff MIGHT be dried up by then. I want to get the M855 for when we do have to fight the chinese, as you put it. I don't see the M855 round as the all-around superior round, but there are instances when it looks as if it would prove to be a better round given a certain set of circumstances. If that should happen, I'd like to have the most effective round, given the task at hand. Does that make sense, or am I WAY off base with that kind of thinking? (Seriously. I'm not trying to be a smart ass)

BTW, I am thinking I should try to keep a decent amount of different ammo on hand incase of anything such as TEOTWAWKI, SHTF, or the invasion from the chinese. I have 5k Q3131A, 1k+ 223R1, 2k Wolf 62gr. FMJ, 100 rounds BH 55gr. SP, and 350 rounds of BH 75gr. I think 4k of Q3131A would be good as long as I have the 900 rounds of M855.

I just can't decide. I wish I was rich or had an uncle that liked to buy me AR supplies!

-X
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:46:50 PM EDT
"if" we fight the chinese, i doubt it will be a Red Dawn like scenario.

I'd personally keep the Q3131 as it's going to be a bit more rare from now on. I did however, buy some M855 from ammoman and have it stashed away. Wanna trade 500 rounds, each pay for the shipping?
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:36:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
"if" we fight the chinese, i doubt it will be a Red Dawn like scenario.

I'd personally keep the Q3131 as it's going to be a bit more rare from now on. I did however, buy some M855 from ammoman and have it stashed away. Wanna trade 500 rounds, each pay for the shipping?



What type of the M855 did you get? I know I read some pretty bad reviews on the stuff Ammoman is selling but I think it related mainly to the 00' headstamp. Sounds interesting though, IM coming your way.

-X
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:39:45 AM EDT
Many people think of the M855/SS109 as the 5.56 wonder round. Its not, I assure you.
Its penetration qualities are inferior to M193 at close range and it doesn't start exceeding M193 until around 100 yards or so. At longer distances it has increased penetration against helmets, vests and accessories*such as magazines or other gear* because of increased weight and bullet design. There seems to be this assumption that its capable of defeating armored vehicles or other "hard targets"....its not. Its performance against cars isn't exactly impressive...this isn't a characteristic of M855 but more of the light weight/high velocity component of the caliber and the formidible barrier that is a vehicle. Keep in mind, that at close range, under 100 yards or so,

M193 will have superior penetration because of increased velocity. Both rounds are lousy choices for defeating vehicles, with M855 being superior only at distances greater than 100 yards which is awful far to be shooting at a vehicle with a 5.56 round from a semi auto rifle. While M855 would be a good choice in your theory, in reality you can do much better. If the S ever HTF it won't be like Rambo or Red Dawn. It will be like New Orleans where everyone will be competing for the same food supply and resources. You will be shooting your neighboors at distances of 50 feet or less and they won't be wearing armor....If you think you will be fighting any well equipped modern military where the M855's strengths would be advantageous, think again. If they are so well equipped that you need a semi AP round to kill them, then they are well enough equipped to have

artillery/air support which will ensure you won't fire more than three or four shots. You need the best all around defensive round you can get which will provide you with the best penetration and lethality at defensive ranges....which are CERTAINLY less than 100 yards. More than 100 yards and you are instigating. If you don't have to fight, don't....greater than 100 yards is more than enough space to flee. M193 is the best all around defensive ammo, IMO and you should stock up on as much as possible. I would reccomend buying 200 rounds of 73 grn Berger or 75 grain HP

from BH or 75 grain TAP rounds instead of M855. Any of these rounds represent the pinnacle or lethality for the caliber and you would be wise to procure some. I would reccomend loading your quantity of "serious ammo" into your best magazines and use them as your "first string" ammo.
If there is a chance you are going to be in a firefight, use the best ammo youve got. M193 will due quite nicely when you run out of TAP. As far as M855 drying up, I wouldn't worry about it. You will always be able to find surplus or commercial SS109 which will perform adequatly if you HAVE to have some.....good luck and be smart.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:36:53 AM EDT
M855 or SS-109 whichever you get will be around for awhile like some have said. It is what the military uses right now in their mainstream units (not SF) and people are producing alot. ADCOM is a good M855 round and I have 500 stashed away just because it worked in my rifles very well. If there is a SHTF senario I would start with the 300 rounds of Black hills 75 grain then 300 rounds of Black Hills 68 grain match then M855. Wife does not shoot enough to be as effective with the rounds so she would have Q3131 or Q3131A for a flater bullet. Been thinking of varmint rounds for her just to make sure they go down better but that will be a bit have a good stash of 5.56 and .223.

Scott
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:57:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
My advice is to keep your Q3131A and aquire some M855 when you get the money, if you desire.
M193 type ammo is a better defensive cartridge and has superior penetration at "defensive" ranges because of its increased velocity. Unless you are engaging a well equipped enemy equipped with body armor at distances greater than 100 yards M855 has nothing to offer you...
Against unarmored enemies M193 is a better choice. M855 would have been an exceptional round if the cold war ever turned hot with the Soviets and it will be a great round when we fight the Chinese, however as a civilian facing unarmored targets at defensive ranges, it doesn't offer anything over M193 except for increased price per round and reduced lethality and penetration.
If you really want some M855 save your money and buy some, but don't sacrafice 1k of superior rounds just to obtain some bullets that are superior in your theory.



BIG +1
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:54:50 PM EDT
If you want the finest 5.56mm delf defense round, go with the Hornady 5.56mm 75gr Nato-pressure TAP ammo.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 5:08:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SOSNBA:
If you want the finest 5.56mm delf defense round, go with the Hornady 5.56mm 75gr Nato-pressure TAP ammo.



The question is where do you get the 5.56 round? All I could find is .223. BTW I stock Q3131a and XM193 for the SHTF, with Hornady75 grn .223 in a few mags for initial defense. When I get my Recce built this summer I will be stocking mk 262 mod 1.

RemMan
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:30:30 PM EDT
Basically, you don't....Its much like a unicorn, except not as hard to find. Since Hornady's refusal to sell it to non-LEO's you have to find a stash that has been diverted or returned to the dealer. For most LEO ammo, you need a letterhead to order and its shipped to the Dept. thus making it difficult to divert. Don't expect any large quanitiy if you do find some....maybe 60 rounds.The .223 pressure rounds are excellent rounds which should serve you just fine. While I like the Mk262, not as much as the 75grn TAP, I would suggest you look into the BH 100grn or Berger 100 grn VLD magazine length bullets. These are availible in limited supply from BH, but it is possible to make your own if you are qualified. The 100grn bullet is the most lethal 5.56 round out there and for a Recce rifle, it would be an excellent choice. I am building a 20 inch A4gery type weapon to specifically shoot these rounds. I feel this is a much more effective option than building a less effective, less lethal 7.62 DMR weapon. The performance of these rounds is striking and they are likely to become the next big thing in 5.56 bullets....check it out.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:49:31 AM EDT
One reason I like the SS109 Bullet itself
is that out of my 15inch 1/9 bushmaster its more accurate than the M193 !
But if you look in my stash its XM/Q3131a
and just some IMIand LC M855
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