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Posted: 7/23/2005 9:11:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 7:28:17 PM EDT by FedGunner]
Discuss among yourselves....

Lake City XM-193 55 grain full metal jacket:

Chamber pressure: 58145 PSI
Mean pressure: 58145 PSI
Maximum pressure: 63406 PSI
Minimum pressure: 59614 PSI
Range: 3793 PSI
Standard Deviation: 1062 PSI

Velocity: 3473 FPS
Mean velocity: 3473 FPS
Maximum velocity: 3492 FPS
Minimum velocity: 3443 FPS
Range: 49 FPS
Standard deviation: 16 FPS

11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel.
(1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.)
(Special note: Sample fired in a .223 chamber for uniformity of testing and the fact that many users fire this ammunition in .223 rifles.)

Accuracy
10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test.
Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system.
(All statistics given for 200 yard measurement)

Group 1:
2.8 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.246
velocity: 2734 FPS
Energy: 913 ft-lbs
Power factor: 150.4

Group 2:
3.2 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0..251
velocity: 2720 FPS
Energy: 904 ft-lbs
Power factor: 149.6



American Eagle AE223 55 grain full metal jacket:

Chamber pressure: 50300 PSI
Mean pressure: 50300 PSI
Maximum pressure: 51336 PSI
Minimum pressure: 49239 PSI
Range: 2098 PSI
Standard Deviation: 717 PSI

Velocity: 3261 FPS
Mean velocity: 3261 FPS
Maximum velocity: 3280 FPS
Minimum velocity: 3246 FPS
Range: 33 FPS
Standard deviation: 12 FPS

11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel.
(1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.)

Accuracy
10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test.
Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system.
(All statistics given for 200 yard measurement)

Group 1:
3.4 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.264
velocity: 2614 FPS
Energy: 835 ft-lbs
Power factor: 143.8

Group 2: (one flyer recorded)
6.2 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.257
velocity: 2593 FPS
Energy: 821 ft-lbs
Power factor: 142.6


Wolf Polymer 223 55 grain full metal jacket:

Chamber pressure: 40389 PSI
Mean pressure: 40389 PSI
Maximum pressure: 43274 PSI
Minimum pressure: 36661 PSI
Range: 6612 PSI
Standard Deviation: 2134 PSI

Velocity: 3112 FPS
Mean velocity: 3112 FPS
Maximum velocity: 3155 FPS
Minimum velocity: 3087 FPS
Range: 68 FPS
Standard deviation: 24 FPS

11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel.
(1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.)

Accuracy
10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test.
Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system.
(All statistics given for 200 yard measurement)

Group 1:
7.0 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.241
velocity: 2395 FPS
Energy: 701 ft-lbs
Power factor: 131.7

Group 2:
7.2 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.244
velocity: 2378 FPS
Energy: 691 ft-lbs
Power factor: 130.8



Silver Bear 55 grain full metal jacket:

Chamber pressure: 53727 PSI
Mean pressure: 53727 PSI
Maximum pressure: 57241 PSI
Minimum pressure: 50066 PSI
Range: 7355 PSI
Standard Deviation: 2504 PSI

Velocity: 3431 FPS
Mean velocity: 3431 FPS
Maximum velocity: 3485 FPS
Minimum velocity: 3383 FPS
Range: 102 FPS
Standard deviation: 31 FPS

11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel.
(1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.)

Accuracy
10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test.
Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system.
(All statistics given for 200 yard measurement)

Group 1:
3.8 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.221
velocity: 2643 FPS
Energy: 853 ft-lbs
Power factor: 145.4

Group 2:
7.2 inches
Ballistic co-efficient = 0.218
velocity: 2629 FPS
Energy: 844 ft-lbs
Power factor: 144.6

I have the results for Wolf 62 grain, but I'm waiting to match it against Federal's lowest common denomanator.
Federal samples are pulled directly from loader checks.
(For anyone that is interested. In the second American Eagle Group, if the flyer is removed, the 4 shot group is 4.2 inches)

And for the number junkies:
Temperature: 68 degrees F
Humidity: 59%
Altitude: 1000 feet
Barometric pressure: 29.20 in Hg
Wind speed: 1 MPH
Wind direction: 6 O'clock
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 10:37:24 PM EDT
Thanks cool post headbang.gif

I'll be lookin for those xm193 numbers.
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 11:29:50 PM EDT
Way to go FedGunner!!!!
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 5:27:41 AM EDT
Wow!
Fed AE seems pretty hot loaded. Always thought the obligatory "3240 fps" was for 24" barrels...
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 6:33:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 12:25:37 PM EDT
Rgr should have thought of that!

Thanks Troy!

Matt
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 5:35:50 PM EDT
Good info, thanks for the post. Probably best to wait on the xm193 numbers under the same conditions, same barrel before making any conclusions about AE's comparitive value.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 4:16:48 PM EDT
bump for update
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:16:43 PM EDT
This may be old info but I did notice that Mirage Tech had the pdf files that gives the Federal specs on both the AE223 and the XM193. I'll try to see if I can get the link to work here.

AE223 VS XM193

Hope that worked.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:34:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlatFrogFlyer:
This may be old info but I did notice that Mirage Tech had the pdf files that gives the Federal specs on both the AE223 and the XM193. I'll try to see if I can get the link to work here.

AE223 VS XM193

Hope that worked.



I didn't work off a spec sheet.
This is "live" data. I personally did the pressure and velocity tests, while a co-worker did the accuracy. (If I would have waited to do the acc. it would have taken a couple weeks longer to carve out the personal time to do these tests.) My personal thanks to LLarry!(No that isn't a typo.)
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:52:05 PM EDT
That XM 193 means business. Hot load.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 8:05:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By Keiler:
Wow!
Fed AE seems pretty hot loaded. Always thought the obligatory "3240 fps" was for 24" barrels...



The altitude has a bit of influence as well. Figure more like 3180 fps at sea level. Also, test barrels tend to be tightly chambered, which also increases pressure and velocity a bit.

-Troy



Troy has a point.
I looked back and this barrel was on it's last legs. It had 3000 younds through it and was replaced 2 days after the XM193 sample was shot. Not many of us trash a barrel after six cases.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 11:46:45 AM EDT
Good info, thanks for taking the time to post it.

Smitty
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 5:00:27 PM EDT
good info, definantly yeah definantly good info
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:31:18 PM EDT
Note on ballistics data:

Silver Bear was a bitch to extract from the Pressure and Velocity barrel.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:33:01 AM EDT
Im surprised that Silver Bear is that much hotter that Wolf.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:02:35 PM EDT
Wolf seems rather aenemic when compared to any other round.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 6:22:29 PM EDT
Bumping back up because folks keep asking the same questions.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:25:07 PM EDT
What is interesting to me, is while the Wolf chamber pressure is a good bit lower, the velocities are still somewhat respectable in my opinion.

Compare the M193 loading's chamber pressure to the Wolf chamber pressure.

Even if the chamber of the test barrel is causing somewhat of a spike in chamber pressure and muzzle velocity, the Wolf stuff should be easier on throats over a duration of time.

Sure, 223Rem is a pretty mild cartridge and barrels usually last a long time. But using wolf the throats and the barrel itself should last even longer.

Only helps to reaffirm that if I want to go out plinking and blasting then I may very well look at Wolf more closely. Save all my good stuff for serious shooting be it competition or more serious work and keep the Wolf for fun stuff.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 6:02:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uglygun:
What is interesting to me, is while the Wolf chamber pressure is a good bit lower, the velocities are still somewhat respectable in my opinion.

Compare the M193 loading's chamber pressure to the Wolf chamber pressure.

Even if the chamber of the test barrel is causing somewhat of a spike in chamber pressure and muzzle velocity, the Wolf stuff should be easier on throats over a duration of time.

Sure, 223Rem is a pretty mild cartridge and barrels usually last a long time. But using wolf the throats and the barrel itself should last even longer.

Only helps to reaffirm that if I want to go out plinking and blasting then I may very well look at Wolf more closely. Save all my good stuff for serious shooting be it competition or more serious work and keep the Wolf for fun stuff.



You did look at the accuracy data?

Our test barrels hold .25" at 200 yards....Your average AR "might" hold 1 MOA... That gives you a potential GROUP of 9 inches with Wolf.. If you are happy with that... more power to you!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:44:15 PM EDT
Bump for Tweak
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 12:35:00 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 1:16:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/15/2006 2:56:56 PM EDT by yekimak]
tag for sobriety.

Sober now. Thank you for the info, it is excellent. I appreciate your taking your time in gathering and posting this.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 2:48:55 PM EDT
My lovely wife used her skills at Excel to whip up a spreadsheet to make it a little easier for imbeciles like me who have no short term memory better comprehend this data.

download link is Here (download button is at the bottom of the page)

Lemme know if it turns out.

Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:37:28 PM EDT
I have some SilverBear for plinking ammo and I've had a failure to eject myself. Much hotter than Wolf...

TS
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 7:13:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
My lovely wife used her skills at Excel to whip up a spreadsheet to make it a little easier for imbeciles like me who have no short term memory better comprehend this data.

download link is Here (download button is at the bottom of the page)

Lemme know if it turns out.




Tell her thanks for me.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:38:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 3:41:25 PM EDT by steven1513]
Great post for those of us who like data. No surprises here for those that have used each.

LC XM193 is the hottest, most accurate and most expensive.
Wolf is slowest, least accurate and least expensive.

The gem is Silver Bear which specs near XM193 but is priced closer to Wolf. And if they get rid of the purple sealant it wouldn't have the FTE problems. Let's hope Silver Bear responds to the Western market like Wolf did when Wolf stopped using lacquer.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:15:13 PM EDT
Tackage! That M193 is hotter thanI have seen else where.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:38:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By steven1513:


The gem is Silver Bear which specs near XM193 but is priced closer to Wolf. And if they get rid of the purple sealant it wouldn't have the FTE problems.



I think that the zinc oxide on the case makes it hard to extract. The stuff gets like sandpaper with even the mildest corrosion.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:57:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By steven1513:


The gem is Silver Bear which specs near XM193 but is priced closer to Wolf. And if they get rid of the purple sealant it wouldn't have the FTE problems.



I think that the zinc oxide on the case makes it hard to extract. The stuff gets like sandpaper with even the mildest corrosion.



I had problems manually getting it out of a test barrel.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:46:38 PM EDT
Thanks for the info. I shot it for the first time today and was pleased with the accuracy in my Varminter. Can't wait to try it in the 16 inch.
JRandyH
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:00:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JRandyH:
Thanks for the info. I shot it for the first time today and was pleased with the accuracy in my Varminter. Can't wait to try it in the 16 inch.
JRandyH


Hello Randy. Shot what?


Originally Posted By Schulze:
I think that the zinc oxide on the case makes it hard to extract. The stuff gets like sandpaper with even the mildest corrosion.


Agreed about the corrosion. For me, Silver Bear is only cheap training ammo. But it, shoot it, but don't cache it. LC XM193 (and other M193) is rainy decade cached ammo. So for my uses it would be better without gobs of sealant.

In 2002 (Russian) Wolf stopped using the same sealant and in 2004 they stopped using lacquer. And look how much thier market share has gone up as a result! I'm not debating whether Wolf is good here. (There are already about 20 threads debating Wolf at any given time.) I'm just saying that Wolf responded to the western consumer and sales have gone up as a direct result.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:21:09 PM EDT
Anyone know the pressure specs for XM-193 when fired from a 5.56 NATO chamber? That 63K psi figure shows what can happen when you let off 5.56 pressure ammo in a .223 chamber. I'm just wondering if 5.56 pressure specs call for 55K psi? Higher? If so, how much higher?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:01:02 PM EDT
Well...this answers a lot of my questions. I've also seen the spec sheet PDF from Federal for the XM193. I chrono'd LOT-105 XM193 from my 16" Colt 6520 barrel in 1/7, and I averaged 3,249fps. I thought I was way too hot. Not really. People interchange the FPS spec the military uses (78ft from muzzle) with muzzle velocity. At 75ft (according to my ballistics calculator) it's doing 3,150 -- which is right on spec.


Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:01:25 PM EDT
You've got some serious accuracy problems with your setup. Is that supposed to be a solid repeatable platform? Seems a bit....."off."
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 6:28:23 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 8:33:02 AM EDT
Sorry Federal XM 193.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 8:58:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HKTackDriver:
You've got some serious accuracy problems with your setup. Is that supposed to be a solid repeatable platform? Seems a bit....."off."



Those are 200 yd numbers, you caught that, didn't you?
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