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Posted: 11/12/2003 9:55:58 AM EDT
I've got a bunch of these bullets(for reloading) and just assumed they were varmint bullets, but with closer inspection I see that they are not. They are OTM ie match bullets.

Okay, here's my question (maybe stupid but humor me).

Has any testing been done on the lighter wieght higher velocity MATCH bullets?

Because they are not designed to explode like varmint HPs, could they have deeper penetration due to yawning and then fragment like the heavier OTMs?

The reason I ask these question is the possiblity of rounds like these to be ideal for certain roles (mainy personal home defense and law enforcement).

1. They are MUCH less expensive than the heavier counter-parts. I paid .12 cents per bullet for these and I usually pay .17 cents per bullet for 68-69gr and 75-77 are more.

2. Can load these to MUCH higher velocities. I think 3400-3600 fps out of a 20 in barrel. This could be a much more effective round in shorter barreled entry weapons(10.5-11.5 " barrels).

3. These bullets could be well suited for indoor CQB with less interior/exterior wall penetration than the heavier bullets.

4. Can be used in barrels with slower twist rates.

5. Should defeat body armour.

6. Bullet wieght is similar to 55gr M193 so potentially could have similar performance with fragmentation at lower velocities. However they do not have a cannelure (they might not fragment at all because they are so short compared to the longer OTMs).


Any thoughts on lighter wieght OTM bullets?

I know the light ballistic tip, and varmint bullets have been discredited ad nauseum, but that is not what I'm asking about.


Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:27:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:30:17 AM EDT
Dr Roberts did a paper on a variety of rounds. There are 2 53gr JHP round listed (neither is the SMK). However based on their performance (and the performance of most of the lighter rounds) I'd say it probably won't make the 12" minimum depth. It would be interesting to test them though to find out for sure. However, if you are planning on using these for your self protection, isn't your life worth the exta $0.05 for the heavier (and proven) rounds?
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:41:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge: Has any testing been done on the lighter wieght higher velocity MATCH bullets?
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Not sure about these particular bullets, but I seem to recall test of similar bullets
Because they are not designed to explode like varmint HPs, could they have deeper penetration due to yawning and then fragment like the heavier OTMs?
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From what I remember, the general consensus was that most 22 caliber light match bullets tend to behave much like their polymer-tipped bretheren. I have experienced massive fragmentation from Match loads.
The reason I ask these question is the possiblity of rounds like these to be ideal for certain roles (mainy personal home defense and law enforcement). 1. They are MUCH less expensive than the heavier counter-parts. I paid .12 cents per bullet for these and I usually pay .17 cents per bullet for 68-69gr and 75-77 are more.
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They do tend to be cheaper. I haven't noticed a difference in price like you are talking about though. Speer bullets are cheaper than Sierra, for example, but most Sierra bullets in the same cal. are in the same price ballpark
2. Can load these to MUCH higher velocities. I think 3400-3600 fps out of a 20 in barrel. This could be a much more effective round in shorter barreled entry weapons(10.5-11.5 " barrels).
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You will NOT be able to load a 52 grain HPBT to 3400 FPS without getting into excessive pressure. Figure 3300 FPS max with a 20" barrel. 3600 is out of the question.
3. These bullets could be well suited for indoor CQB with less interior/exterior wall penetration than the heavier bullets.
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Testing would be the only way to tell. You don't want to reduce wall penetration at the expense of bad guy penetration.
4. Can be used in barrels with slower twist rates.
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Yup!
5. Should defeat body armour.
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Sure. A Speer 52 grain HPBT easily perforates 1/4 inch steel
6. Bullet wieght is similar to 55gr M193 so potentially could have similar performance with fragmentation at lower velocities. However they do not have a cannelure (they might not fragment at all because they are so short compared to the longer OTMs).
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They may fragment too readily. This may be ok for SBR's and long ranges, but you don't want to sacrifice penetration.
Any thoughts on lighter wieght OTM bullets? I know the light ballistic tip, and varmint bullets have been discredited ad nauseum, but that is not what I'm asking about.
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They are great for short range accuracy. They kill small animals pretty well too. They absolutely destroyed a small stack of wet phone books that I shot, and the wound was very large and shallow. I doubt that you will see a favorable comparison to M193 type or the heavier OTM types because of this.
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Link Posted: 11/12/2003 11:50:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2003 11:53:34 AM EDT by Ridge]
Originally Posted By Troy: - You aren't going to get them over 3300 fps without seriously exceeding safe pressure levels.
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Sorry, I was trying to remember loading data off the top of my head. Good thing I didn't post the load eh [:D]
- They don't meet FBI/IWBA criteria for defensive ammo because they give inadequate penetration, and tissue disruption is relatively small.
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I wanted to see the raw data, but I also suspect this is correct.
- All 5.56 ammo will penetrate up to Level IIIA body armor, and some will penetrate Level III.
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I knew that but had do add it as a benefit of .223.
Originally Posted by Forest: Dr Roberts did a paper on a variety of rounds. There are 2 53gr JHP round listed (neither is the SMK). However based on their performance (and the performance of most of the lighter rounds) I'd say it probably won't make the 12" minimum depth.
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Yep, probably true.
It would be interesting to test them though to find out for sure.
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That was basically the point of the thread to see if these specific rounds have been tested.
However, if you are planning on using these for your self protection, isn't your life worth the exta $0.05 for the heavier (and proven) rounds?
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They were purchased for varmint hunting, so I hope they will work good for that. I would only use these rounds if they were proven. I haven't even loaded them up yet (as you can tell from my lack of velocity knowledge). However. The marginal cost does add up if a person plans to practice/train a lot. I wonder if the mechanism of fragmentation is the same for these light OTM bullets as it is for the larger long ones (yawning and breaking). If it just happens much faster (shallower). Thanks for the input everyone.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 4:51:03 PM EDT
RIDGE, Thanks for posting the thread, I was wondering this myself. I was also wondering about normal 55 grain psp's because they are so much cheaper than the others. I think the only thing cheaper is fmj's. I agree, it does add up if you shoot alot.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 2:52:29 AM EDT
I am glad this question was brought up because I shoot alot of the 52 and 53 grain SMK's with Hogdon BL-c(2). My Rifle shoots really well with these bullets and they are cheap. Blackhills sells ammo using the 52 grain Match hollow point with a cannelure. I have been wondering what the actual penetration and fragmentation of this particular load in ballistic grade gelatin.
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