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Posted: 11/4/2003 8:27:08 PM EDT
Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but I don't like the idea of getting a face full of upper.

I bought some of the value pack Winchester ammo to break in the new AR. Every round I've checked has loose powder in the case. They all rattle.

Is this normal?

None of my 9mm ammo or .22LR ammo does this.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 8:44:58 PM EDT
the case is not full of powder. There will be some noise from the powder inside the round. All ammo is like that.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:54:02 PM EDT
Some ammunition is loaded such that the case is filled more completely than other ammunition. It depends on the type of gun powder used and the velocity the loader was trying to achieve. You learn this very quickly if you load your own ammo. One of my favorite loads for .223 is 27.0 grains of Varget behind a 55 grain Hornady V-Max bullet. It is a compressed load and the bullet actually squishes the powder as it is seated into the case. In this load, the powder does not "rattle" when the loaded round is shook. Another of my loads I use for plinking is 26.0 grains of H335 powder behind a 55 grain FMJBT bullet. This combination leaves enough room in the case to cause a noticeable rattle when the round is shook. Between these two loads, the H335+FMJBT is about 50 feet-per-second faster than the Varget+V-Max. H335 burns quicker and is denser than Varget. Therefore, less volume and mass of H335 is needed to produce a faster velocity. Chances are some of the powder in your other ammo rattles around too, but it just doesn’t have enough room left in the case to make much noise when you shake it. For grins and giggles, you can take a pair or pliers and pull out the bullets from your ammo and see just how much powder is in them. (Don’t try and put the ammo back together and use it.)
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 2:12:24 AM EDT
Qman what kind of velocity are you getting with the 26.0 grs of H335 with the 55gr fmjbt?
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 7:56:18 AM EDT
My own results on a nice summer day, about 95 degrees ambient temperature, humidity quite low, using '03 LC brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers, Hornady 55 gr FMJBT atop 26.3 gr of H335, I chrono'd about 3250 avg velocity out of a 20" A2.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 10:45:53 AM EDT
Thanks MikeR. I will have to give that one a try.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 10:40:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2003 10:43:03 PM EDT by Q-Man]
Sorry, I didn't check back on this topic for a little while. I load my ammo on a Dillon 550B. These loads were worked up this last summer and temperatures were around 90 F. Here is some data from my log book: Bushmaster V-Match 20" HBAR (fluted, chrome-lined) Hornady V-Max 55 gr Varget 27.0 gr WCC or LC cases Winchester Small Rifle primer Over All Length: 2.250 inches (I pulled this OAL back from 2.260 because I had a single instance of trouble in the 30 round magazines where the rounds would stick in the curve of the magazine.) < 1" groups consistently at 100 yards Chronograph Data: 10 shots 3098 fps minimum 3146 fps maximum 3120 fps average 16.58 Standard Dev. Winchester FMJ-BT 55 gr H335 26.0 gr WCC and LC cases Winchester Small Rifle primer OAL 1.195 to 1.215 (These bullets are not precision and the OAL varies greatly. They are seated to be crimped about the cannelure.) 2"+ at 100 yard with frequent "fliers" Chronograph Data: 10 shots 3117 fps min 3196 fps max 3149 fps average 25.82 standard dev Nosler Ballistic Tip 55 gr H335 26.3 gr (WARNING! At a temperature of 90 F outside, 26.5 grains of H335 caused 3 pierced primers out of 10 rounds.) WCC/LC Brass WSR primer 10 shot groups were about 1" 30 shot group opened up to 2" Chronograph data got corrupted with another string of shots, but velocities were around 3150 fps. I like the boat tail design of the bullet, but the Hornadys shoot better. I couldn't get this bullet to behave well with Varget powder, which is less temperature sensitive. I'll stick with Hornadys for premium bullets. Rock River Arms AR15.com 2001 Limited Edition Group Purchase (LEGP) rifle. 16" barrel Not chrome lined. Winchester FMJ-BT 55 gr H335 26.5 gr WCC/LC brass WSR Primers 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards, but lots of fliers. Temperature was about 80 F No chronograph data Shoots slightly more accurately than the 26.0 gr H335 loads that were loaded for the Bushmaster V-Match.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 4:18:07 AM EDT
Thanks for the info Qman. I have been getting good results by using 26.5 grs of Varget and a Sierra 60 gr hp bullet. I don't own a chronograph yet but the accuracy out of my 20" armalite with the chrome lined barrel is .65 for 3shots and .78 for five. I am using a 4x ACOG. I like varget alot, but Iam looking for a cheaper bulk powder for plinking. I believe you have helped me out in this. Thanks!
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