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Posted: 10/24/2003 4:52:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 5:00:47 AM EDT by JTinIN]
Was wonder what everyone uses for their "good standard ammo" and why?

Assume for most is:

Federal XM193 - Postive is can order by the case when you want (typically at the distributor), however, do not like the lot to lot variation with sealing.

Win Q3131A - easy to get locally now days, however, discussion that might dry up (or has at the manufacters level).


Has anyone switched for the most part to a heavier round such as:

Hornady 75 gr TAP - cost locally is high (in particular for plinking), is there any option of getting a good price by the case?.

75gr Hornady/77gr Nosler OTM NATO loading - under consideration, however, wonder what the supply will be in a year (i.e. one time deal assume).

Federal GMM - high in price and primarly for paper (i.e. for the cost wonder if Hor TAP would have better terminal ballistics).

M885 - IMI appears to be the only game in town now days and not that common at that (the last cases of Hertinburg are on the back of the shelf along with the linked Win M885 / LC tracer for the S..... )

Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:10:02 AM EDT
For 55-grain its Q3131A all the way. Everytime I buy some, I store 1/3 of it for a rainy day. I'm not too worried about supply drying up. [:D] For 62-grain its IMI M855. I haven't tried any of the heavier rounds.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:32:57 AM EDT
For discussion, why Q3131A vs XM193 ... sealing differences, flash suppression, easier to get, personel preference (i.e. blond vs red head ;-)? Thanks John
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:44:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 5:44:52 AM EDT by QuietShootr]
I've been buying XM193 the last 1500 or so rounds I've shot. Where are you finding Q3131A in Indy for a good price? Edited to add..I'd like to try some of that Black Hills NATO load, but I don't want to buy a case to do it.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:47:16 AM EDT
For me, Q3131A can be picked up at a local store for $180 per case. Not many local guys stock the Federal. I guess that's the biggest reason for me and suppose if the local guys had an endless supply of the Federal, I'd probably be buying it. Although I'd be careful to check lot numbers. I don't have to do that with the Q. FWIW, I've also heard people have very good results with the IMI M193 ammo. I wouldn't hesitate to buy some of it. I'm not too big on old surplus. I prefer new manufacture. For that reason I've avoided some stuff like the SA battle packs. Also, buy storing 1/3 of every case I buy, I'm able to "test" the quality of the ammo/lot by shooting 2/3s of it. This gives me a little extra peace of mind.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 6:01:24 AM EDT
Lake City XM193 for me. I live about 30 miles for the ammo plant. Just had the best luck with this stuff.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 6:37:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: I've been buying XM193 the last 1500 or so rounds I've shot. Where are you finding Q3131A in Indy for a good price? Edited to add..I'd like to try some of that Black Hills NATO load, but I don't want to buy a case to do it.
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The Sporting goods store in Bloomington has it for the standard $3.99 a box (not a good price but easy to get if go shooting with friends at their range). Other option is Albro's to do a special order for the XM193 and of course mail order.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:52:15 AM EDT
My favorite, local, gun shop stocks Q3131A so I use that almost exclusively.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 11:35:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By knightsar: Lake City XM193 for me. I live about 30 miles for the ammo plant. Just had the best luck with this stuff.
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Yeah, me too (30 miles west). I just wish they had a walk up window at the plant. Wouldn't [red]that[/red] be great.? Jeff D.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 12:53:20 PM EDT
I love both of these kinds of ammo. I've found that the Lake City (Federal XM193) is a little hotter (50 to 100 fps or so), but has a enormous muzzle flash and too much tar/sealant all over the brass. (I got Lot 10. The lot 43 stuff I just got, but haven't shot, doesn't have any tar/sealant, which is better for me as a reloader because that tar is messy.) The Winchester Q3131A has the best looking brass and shoots ever so slightly more accurate than the LC in my rifle. I'll buy either one when I need ammo and choose the one that I can get the best deal on.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 4:35:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Q-Man: I love both of these kinds of ammo. I've found that the Lake City (Federal XM193) is a little hotter (50 to 100 fps or so), but has a enormous muzzle flash and too much tar/sealant all over the brass. (I got Lot 10. The lot 43 stuff I just got, but haven't shot, doesn't have any tar/sealant, which is better for me as a reloader because that tar is messy.) The Winchester Q3131A has the best looking brass and shoots ever so slightly more accurate than the LC in my rifle. I'll buy either one when I need ammo and choose the one that I can get the best deal on.
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I agree 100% with this..They are both great but, IMHO, I do give a very very slight edge to Q3131A.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:43:41 PM EDT
Another vote for good ol Q3131A here
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:57:39 PM EDT
Q3131A hands down for me. Danny
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 4:25:06 PM EDT
Q all the way.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 4:47:34 PM EDT
My first big purchase (1000rd) was Q3131A from the Ammoman. That's my choice for defense. For plinking and goofing around I shoot American Eagle.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 7:52:26 PM EDT
Q3131A... here's why. Before buying by the case, I bought 100 rounds of XM193 and Q3131A to test (and used .223 American Eagle also, my usual plinking round). Please note, this is very unscientific but agrees with what I have read here. Step one, fired at night to compare flash (on private property where I have a 50 yard range set up)... Results: with a preban 20" with A2 flashhider... no major difference amongst the three, all had small dull orange flash. With a 16" with postban J&T "tac-brake", slightly larger orange flash with the .223AE (approx. twice as big as with A2 flashhider), amazingly, the Q3131A had about the same flash as the .223AE, very surprising! Finally, the XM193 lit up the night! Massive bright yellow fireball! EDGE: Q3131A Next step in daylight, 10 - five shot groups with each for accuracy (both ARs with open sights from a bench, OK...a picnic table). The .223 Amer. Eagle and Q3131A both performed about the same, 50 yard groups averaging about 3/4". The XM193 groups opened up a bit, averaging 1 1/4 inches. EDGE: Q3131A I didn't bring the chronograph for velocity, but the XM193 seemed to be loaded the hottest(based on recoil and sound). The Q3131A close, and of course the .223 AE was pretty mild stuff. EDGE: XM193 Other things noticed... zero failures to feed or eject in 300 rounds (not a big test, I know). This might sound petty, but I dislike the XM193 boxes... what are those perforations for? You need to destroy the box to get the ammo out whereas the Q3131A box is much more user friendly. EDGE: Q3131A Conclusion: If I got a good deal on XM193, I would buy that. If the price was the same, I would go with Q3131A. Scot
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 8:19:59 PM EDT
[size=6]XM193![/size=6]
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 9:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2003 11:50:57 PM EDT by JTinIN]
Thanks Is Q3131A sealed on the primer and neck now days (been shooting XM193 for the last five cases).
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 4:44:03 AM EDT
Finally a discussion about the best 55grn milspec ammo available. My preference, plain Jane XM193. She's never, never let me down. Now the best part of this discussion, choose either LC-XM or Win-Q, they're both 193 spec! No matter which is your personnal choice, you're shooting the highest quality ammo available on the market that was/is specifically designed to operate in the M16/AR15 weapon systems. Good to hear from folks with high performance expectations. Shoot straight and take your son or a friend to a gun show.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:40:56 PM EDT
Both are good and have very comparable accuracy. The real differences to consider are velocity, cost, and availablity. XM193 averages about 100fps greater than Q3131A. Fragmentation and effective range for good frag will be a bit better with XM193. Recoil will be more noticible with XM 193 and Q3131 will seem mild. Flash with an A2 cage is very comparable for both. Cost will depend on you local supplier. Locally in Washington State, XM193 is less expensive. There has been some question in various threads on this site as to long term availability for Q3131A. The choice: XM193 will offer better terminal performance with similar accuracy. Cost and availability will also favor this round. Realistically, you cannot go wrong with either cartridge. See which your rifle likes and which you just prefer to shoot. Remember that pracice and proficiency are the only variables that really count.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 4:31:57 PM EDT
Another vote Q3131A------Love it!
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 4:37:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 8:26:50 AM EDT by out4trout]
I like both XM-193 and Q3131A very much. I consider XM-193 to be the "gold standard" to which all other brands are compared. Q3131A is just as good but slightly slower (25-35 fps), so for all practical purposes there is no difference. Some prefer Q3131A because the brass is better looking and it does not have the bullet and primer sealant variations that are sometimes found with XM-193. My personal favorite as of late has been IMI-193. Israeli Military Industries makes Q3131A for Winchester to import to the US. IMI-193 is identical to Q3131A. Of course the headstamps are different, and the IMI comes packed 30 rounds to a box instead of 20 like Win. (Actually it's kind of handy for loading 30 rnd mags with your LULA). Botach Tactical currently has IMI-193 on sale for $189.00 for 1200 rnds with free shipping. That calculates out to $157.50 per 1000 rnds delivered to your door. You might have to search far and wide to find that good a deal on XM-193 or Q3131A unless you can score some at a gun show. Just my opinion and recommendation, I'm sure others will have their preferences. I buy what ever satisfies my pocketbook and rifle for practice, blasting, plinking or training. However, if I had to bet my life on a brand(s) of 5.56 X 45 55gr ammo the only ones I would consider would be XM-193, Q3131A & IMI-193.
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 5:12:04 PM EDT
Primary is Black Hills 75gr OTM (backup is Black Hills 68gr OTM). When I buy 55gr I prefer Winchester Q3131A (or South African M1A3/M1A4 when available).
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 8:36:15 PM EDT
This thread needs a poll. I've been using XM193 due to my preference for both velocity and price.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 10:35:26 PM EDT
I just bought 1000 rounds ofQ3131A for $170 at my local gun store. They have a ton of boxes on the floor of that ammo.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 4:36:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 6:24:59 AM EDT by JTinIN]
Originally Posted By chuckhammer: This thread needs a poll. I've been using XM193 due to my preference for both velocity and price.
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[b]Good Idea - Thanks[/b] This is my first poll, just found out that does not appear can edit the poll format once posted (which is reasonable when you think about it). Interesting trying to write a flow diagram for the poll to fit all replys into 5 groups. In this case besides the 55 gr FMJ vs. everything else, also had the split between different usage of ammo (which is not covered):[green][list][*][b]Blasting Ammo[/b] Ammo that goes bang and does not damage anything.[/*] [*][b]Everyday Ammo[/b] Typically what your rifle is sighted in for ... what your shoot when you wish to do something more than make noise [;)][/*] [*][b]The Good Stuff[/b] What you keep in reserve, Duty Ammo etc. If you are one that practices with what you carry then the same or very very similar to your every day ammo.[/*] [*][b]Special Purpose[/b]Tracer, Expanding (if you use FMJ), semi-AP, Match Ammo etc. that you use, but not everyday[/*] [/list][/green]
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 8:07:11 AM EDT
Q3131A mostly, for me - my Bushy 20" A2 shoots it the best, although the XM193 is very good as well - I wouldn't feel bad about shooting either, to be sure... I DID notice that through my rifle, I need to add 2 or 3 clicks of windage to switch between the two, which I thought was a little odd, because if anything, I thought I might have an elevation difference... I guess sometimes barrel harmonics ARE a strange science... - georgestrings
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:03:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 11:06:31 AM EDT by El_Roto]
I can't choose one over the other; I've shot more XM193 but I've been totally happy with my recent purchase of Q3131A. The Federal ammo does have one HUGE advantage no one seems to have mentioned: it's harder to type Q3131A...it's like spellling banana: the letters are easy, knowing when to stop is what's hard. Reading that IMI is selling in 30 round boxes has me thinking I'll be trying some of it before too long since all my mags are 30-rounders.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 6:36:11 PM EDT
This may be a totally stupid answer but I like the way XM193 cycles through my gun and the consistant sound that it makes every time. A funny side note my wife is impressed that the ammo comes in brown boxes and looks like military ammo. I guess my wife has better logic than me. BTW it is accurate and has worked flawlessly [:)]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 7:04:00 PM EDT
I'm poor [:)] South African surplus has been my standard. I'll pick up a box or two of Federal Gold Medal if I'm concerned about groups.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 7:54:03 PM EDT
In my 16" RRA, I get... Federal/XM193 – 3094fps 39fps Win/Q3131A – 3079fps 13fps ...only a 15fps difference between the two, but velocity was more consistent. I prefer the Q3131A because it has less muzzle flash and less felt recoil. I have a case of IMI-M193 en-route...I'll check out that stuff & give a report when it arrives.
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