Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/21/2003 1:40:45 PM EDT
Just received 1k rounds of Lot 43 from Wholesale Hunter at the excellent price of $168.50 delivered.

Both the case neck and primer pocket are unsealed. Although this may not be very important to many people it's still a shortcut on the part of Federal. I hope they aren't taking similar shortcuts on bullet construction or powder charge.

If I owned a chrono and some ballistic gelatin I would test every lot I bought just to be certain of its potency.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:39:40 PM EDT
Just got in 1K myself, but haven't had time to open it up. Thanks for the heads up. I figured for that price something was up, but for my needs, sealant is not an issue. I figure if I'm going to store it, Ill spend the extra $$ and get it from Ammoman.com
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:51:24 PM EDT
I had some Lot 8 and 9 that I picked up maybe 9 months ago. Although they both had sealed primer pockets, neither had sealed case necks. The point is, I'm not sure if Federal puts a hell of alot of effort into making sure XM193 fully meets the M193 spec. Too bad, since Q3131A (same as IMI) is supposedly a somewhat lighter load. I'm not aware of any other current production M193 ammo that's not crap such as Olympic.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:45:08 PM EDT
Whew, I thought I was going crazy. I have the same problem with Lot 43 from my order; lucky me one case (500 rounds) was lot 43, the other case was lot 45, which was sealed, both at the neck and at the primer. Is there anything Federal is going to do about it? I was going to store it packed on stripper clips in bandoleers, but now I'm gonna have to wait. Ghost
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 6:50:34 PM EDT
Both cases were from Wholesale Hunter?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:01:17 PM EDT
I had some Lot 8 and 9 that I picked up maybe 9 months ago. Although they both had sealed primer pockets, neither had sealed case necks. The point is, I'm not sure if Federal puts a hell of alot of effort into making sure XM193 fully meets the M193 spec.
View Quote
Just to play devil's advocate, that might be the reason why we can buy it as civilians. Sort of like the great deals on recalled Speer GoldDot. How do we know that it wasn't rejected for military use by Federal and then made available to the public because of it?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:45:47 PM EDT
I was under the impression that we get Federal XM193 is because they take apart ammo originally sold to the government and then reassemble it. I mean, if it was rejected based on the lack of sealant, wouldn't they just run it through the sealing machine or whatever process they seal rounds with and then sell it to the government? BTW, anyone know of any way to seal the primer and case necks that I can do myself? Ghost
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:59:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter: I was under the impression that we get Federal XM193 is because they take apart ammo originally sold to the government and then reassemble it. I mean, if it was rejected based on the lack of sealant, wouldn't they just run it through the sealing machine or whatever process they seal rounds with and then sell it to the government? BTW, anyone know of any way to seal the primer and case necks that I can do myself? Ghost
View Quote
As far as I know the Lake City M193 that we civvies can buy is [b]not[/b] reassembled, it's the real deal. And just to clarify again there is no evidence to support my post above, I was only playing devil's advocate. So far I've had excellent luck with LC M193 and I hope it stays available for us to buy. So far all of mine has been from lot 28 (2002 production). Although I haven't taken the time to inspect every round I own so far I haven't found any that were missing sealer.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 8:31:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 8:34:31 PM EDT by Minuteman]
Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter: I was under the impression that we get Federal XM193 is because they take apart ammo originally sold to the government and then reassemble it. I mean, if it was rejected based on the lack of sealant, wouldn't they just run it through the sealing machine or whatever process they seal rounds with and then sell it to the government? BTW, anyone know of any way to seal the primer and case necks that I can do myself? Ghost
View Quote
1. The Federal XM193 is new manufature. 2. Talon Manufactoring Co. [url]http://talonammo.com/[/url] has the contract to remanufature ammunition from USGI pull down components. 3. [url]http://www.huntingtons.com/PrimingAcces.html[/url] for George & Roys Primer Sealant, see bottom of page. MM
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 3:27:26 PM EDT
I guess I lucked out. Just cracked it open to take a look and was pleasantly suprised to see LOT 45!
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 7:11:59 PM EDT
I just looked into the locker, and found some Lot 29s and Lot 38s. Neither had any sealant. I'm pretty darn sure I have seen rounds with primer sealant before, however, from a Lot approaching the mid-40s. It does seem like there should be a little more consistency. Still, even without the sealant it's good stuff.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:07:42 AM EDT
I purchased 2000 rounds all together, the first shipment was 1000 rounds of lot 45, which appears to be sealed. My second 1000 rounds was lot 37 , it does seem to be lacking the sealant.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 4:28:55 AM EDT
The lot 45 does appear to be sealed. I ordered 1000 rounds from Wholesale Hunter.com last week and shot about 400 rounds of it this weekend. I think I'll order some more and put this stuff away sealed up.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 4:57:24 AM EDT
"Buy It Cheap...Stack It Deep!" I feel sorry for the enemy when next SHTF scenario comes around!
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:06:34 PM EDT
I just checked some lot #29 that i just purchased at a gun show.No sealer showing.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:31:06 PM EDT
WHEW!! My 2 cases are lot 45. I can see sealant on the primer but not on the bullet??
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 8:57:24 PM EDT
For whatever it is worth! After reading the aforementioned, I pulled a couple from Lot 45 and they are, in fact, sealed with what appears to be the common brownish type military sealant that I have observed in US mil spec ammo over past 40 some odd years. I was unable to observe any sealant, even with magnification, unless the bullet was pulled. Primers appear sealed also; however, is not easily observable as some ammo is done. Best to all.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 10:01:24 PM EDT
Got mine today. Both cases were Lot 43. Headstamp NATO cross, LC plus "02". No sign of sealent. I best get busy shooting them I guess. (SIGH) [:\] Dan
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 4:45:52 AM EDT
My lot 37 has sealed primers, the lot 43 does not.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 5:12:35 PM EDT
I have some LOT 29 and the primers are sealed but it dosn't look like the necks are.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 5:23:46 PM EDT
I pulled one from lot 37- no sealant.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 10:00:51 PM EDT
... Lot 45, both cases!!! Ahh, now to find a clean pair of skivies.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 2:48:49 PM EDT
I opened twenty boxes of my lot 45 today at the range. Fourteen had sealant, six did not. What kind of consistency is that. This is kind of upsetting. All had NATO headstamp, LC '03. What do I do now, I guess I have to just be at mercy ofthe manufacturer. It shoots great, and I could not beat the price, it is just a little disconcerting.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 7:18:16 AM EDT
Just took a peek at the actual rounds from my Lot 45. No sealant visible. Damn! Going to have to shoot this up and order more. (Only opened two boxes, but the above post is enough for me.)
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 11:53:41 AM EDT
OK, I have to ask. How many of you plan on storing your ammo under water? Sealant or no sealant, if you properly store your ammo who cares. If you are looking for long term storage do what the military does. PUT IT IN AMMO CANS! Geesh.... MM
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:19:42 PM EDT
It is the principle of the thing. M193 should be sealed on both ends.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:43:20 PM EDT
Does anyone know what the volicity is on this stuff at the muzzel and 100 yards?
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 3:31:55 PM EDT
Totally agree with TFOD! It is advertised as Mil Spec, we pay for Mil Spec and therefore it is ALL supposed to be Mil Spec. Anything else is fradulent, is it not?
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 4:28:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2003 4:37:26 PM EDT by gentj491]
OK, after this post, I am done with the sealant topic. When I looked at my first batch of ammo I recently ordered, it was lot 45, and in the first box I looked at, it was very clearly sealed at the primer. I did not pull the projectile to check for sealant, I just assumed it was there. On my next trip out to the range. I opened twenty boxes, on some the sealant was very visible, on others I could not see any at all. A member e mailed me and called to my attention that in some cases the sealant was not very visible. I pulled out all the brass I shot that day and got out a 10X jewelers loop. It was very, very difficult to see but, they all did in fact have the sealant. So next I opened up my lot 37 ammo and scrutinized it with the same loop. It was very hard to see but, it also has the sealant around the primer. Now, I only looked at about 10 boxes, but after all I had been through that was enough. I cannot vouch for the projectile end, as I did not pull apart any rounds. I have learned a valuable lesson on this little adventure, just because you cannot see it, does not mean it is not there. You all take care!!
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 6:27:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Minuteman: OK, I have to ask. How many of you plan on storing your ammo under water? Sealant or no sealant, if you properly store your ammo who cares. If you are looking for long term storage do what the military does. PUT IT IN AMMO CANS! Geesh.... MM
View Quote
Exactly, no big deal. Store it properly and it will go *bang!* as was intended.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 7:25:45 PM EDT
I would rather not have sealant. Sealant is messy for reloaders.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 7:29:16 PM EDT
If the rounds are not sealed, not only do I have to take the time to shoot all rounds ASAP (this is required), I have to buy even more ammo. One does run out of things to shoot at.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 5:42:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dode27: Totally agree with TFOD! It is advertised as Mil Spec, we pay for Mil Spec and therefore it is ALL supposed to be Mil Spec. Anything else is fradulent, is it not?
View Quote
Federal isn't advertising it as Mil Spec. Maybe some retailers are, but my ammo boxes say nothing about meeting any specification, jethro.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 5:52:41 PM EDT
5.56mm M193 Ball
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:12:03 PM EDT
Just a dumb question here..... Are you saying they are unsealed because you can't see the red stuff? Or are you saying they are unsealed because you have taken a UV light to them?
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:23:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2003 5:32:49 PM EDT by markm]
Most here just can't see it. I know one guy and myself actually pulled bullets. It is obvious by some of posts that there is a misunderstanding as to how the sealant is applied. I.E. NOT on the outside, but inside the primer pocket and case mouth. You might not be able to tell that a cartridge is sealed without pulling the bullet. Some of the early lots were indeed not sealed, and I would not be surprised to find out that recent lots weren't sealed.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:41:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2003 6:13:51 PM EDT by chuckhammer]
Originally Posted By FedGunner: Just a dumb question here..... Are you saying they are unsealed because you can't see the red stuff? Or are you saying they are unsealed because you have taken a UV light to them?
View Quote
The sealant used on XM193 is black. I've had sealed lots and pulled the bullets from those so I would recognize the sealant if it were there. You don't need a UV-spectrum light. It looks like black putty. EDIT: In case anyone wondered how I determined that my Lot 43 was unsealed at the case neck, I pulled the bullet from one cartridge from each 500-rd case. No sealant AT ALL. *Edited to correct: As stated in my opeing post, mine is Lot [b]43[/b] not Lot 45. Thanks to Dode27 for bringing this to my attention.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 6:06:59 PM EDT
Indeed the Slopp over is obvious on some casings, but just because the sealant is not on the outside does not mean it is not on the inside. I'd love to see the actual process of getting the stuff in there.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 6:27:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Indeed the Slopp over is obvious on some casings, but just because the sealant is not on the outside does not mean it is not on the inside. I'd love to see the actual process of getting the stuff in there.
View Quote
Ok.... If you are talking Federal ammo made at Federal, you need a black light in the proper wave length to see it. That is what the people loading it use. As to how it is applied. I simply can't tell you. I value my job. (No big secret, but I can't describe manufacturing process)
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 1:40:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sksman761: I think Federal is just getting surplus Lake City brass casings and reloading them just like Black Hills Blue box except Black Hills shines the brass up. With Federal the cases seem very dirty like they were out in bad weather conditions. None of the stuff is sealed. I have one bullet out of 750 rounds which had a little bit of a lacquer seal on the primer.
View Quote
You're an IDIOT! The arangement between Fed and Lake city has been discussed at great length here many times. So has the reason that the brass is not shiney. And YES! some of the ammo is sealed I pulled bullets myself, dope!
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 6:59:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 7:02:37 AM EDT by Robert3803]
My understanding is ALL lake City is sealed, but you just can't see it. Read this post: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=172892
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 7:12:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Robert3803: My understanding is ALL lake City is sealed, but you just can't see it. Read this post: [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=172892[/url]
View Quote
Hot.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:18:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:42:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 10:44:46 AM EDT by chuckhammer]
Originally Posted By WholesaleHunter:
Originally Posted By chuckhammer: Just received 1k rounds...
View Quote
You asked me this question too and I wasn't sure the answer. Did you ever get ahold of Federal and get a definitive answer from them?
View Quote
Although I'm sure someone did ask you before ordering, it wasn't me b/c I don't feel it to be THAT big of a deal, [b]assuming everything else about the ammo is M193-compliant[/b]. It would be nice to have it sealed on both ends but with XM193, you just never can tell. I have some Lot 8 and 9 that I bought a while back from Mirage Technologies that had sealed primers but unsealed bullets. I don't think anyone really knows how these XM193 lots will come out of the factory (sealant wise) until they open a box up and see for themselves. One member mentioned the inconsistent sealing may be due to these rounds being the first run from each new lot. Regardless, we appreciate you helping out the site and its members. [:)]
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 3:00:56 PM EDT
Personally the sealing issue is not a big deal to me.What is really great is the FANTASTIC PRICE AND AVAILABILITY that we get from this excellent vendor. I know that I am very lucky to be able to place an order for 1000 rounds of excellent ammunition and have it shipped right to my door. That convenience alone will make me a dedicated purchaser from WHOLESALEHUNTER.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 7:25:21 AM EDT
I just received 2 cases of Lot 47 from Wholesale Hunter, can't tell if they are sealed or not, ne1 in the same situation?
Top Top