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Posted: 10/20/2003 10:48:17 PM EDT
I have a Bushy with a 14.5 inch barrel and a 1:9 ROT, also, I live in a 90 year old + adobe with walls 18 inchs thick so overpenetration may not be an issue. I have enough XM193, What performs better in terms of wond potential?
Thanks, Ants
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 12:50:07 AM EDT
75 or 77 grain OTM. There is a group buy going on right here in this forum.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 2:51:26 PM EDT
I thought I needed a faster ROT for that heavy of a round. OTM = Open Tip Match? or not even close?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:49:29 PM EDT
Yes = OTM and no you dont need a faster twist for the ranges inside your house. It is at the limit of stability at 1/9. It could be stable to 50m, 100m or even 200m. It really depends on your rifle but it will be just fine for 50m regardless.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:52:44 PM EDT
devl, can people get in on buying that stuff at a smaller level than $300 or half a case?????
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 5:07:24 PM EDT
Unfortunately, no. Not at this time, at least.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:54:58 PM EDT
what is the minimum order?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 11:11:59 PM EDT
500 rounds at $300 for the MK 262 77 grain. The cheapest loaded 75 grain ammo you can find is once used brass at $225 for 1000. This is .223 pressure not 5.56 pressure. No staked primer or sealant or cannelure on the bullet. Its cheap though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 8:32:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CYBIN: I have a Bushy with a 14.5 inch barrel and a 1:9 ROT, also, I live in a 90 year old + adobe with walls 18 inchs thick so overpenetration may not be an issue. I have enough XM193, What performs better in terms of wond potential? Thanks, Ants
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I would go to war with that XM193. That would be my choice and you can buy it new for $175/1000.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 1:32:20 PM EDT
Who do I talk to if I want to get in on the group buy of ammo?
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 3:34:02 PM EDT
Call Georgia Precision.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 5:05:42 PM EDT
For home defense I’d use Blaser ammo. The way those Blue-Tipped Nasties blow up cans filled with water, I can’t think of anything better for Home Defense. I just wish they didn’t go for over $2.00 per round.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 6:57:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GiggleSmith: For home defense I’d use Blaser ammo. The way those Blue-Tipped Nasties blow up cans filled with water, I can’t think of anything better for Home Defense. I just wish they didn’t go for over $2.00 per round.
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That's Glaser, not Blaser, and those are a terrible choice for personal protection. To pu it simply, their penetration is absolutely HORRID.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 5:46:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GiggleSmith: The way those Blue-Tipped Nasties blow up cans filled with water,
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I'll remember that the next time I'm attacked by cans filled with water...
I can’t think of anything better for Home Defense.
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[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 7:06:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 7:07:37 AM EDT by PAEBR332]
Suggestion to the mods: Is there anyway that the BB software ARFcom uses can automatically re-route to the ammo-oracle any user who types the words "best, defense, ammo" (2 of three) into a subject line? Sure would save on bandwidth.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:08:33 PM EDT
For the best home defense ammo... The only choice is the bulk packs of .22LR found at walmart. If you really are worried about the cans/water, pick up some aguila ammunition...it fires at 1500fps.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 3:42:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Marksman14: For the best home defense ammo... The only choice is the bulk packs of .22LR found at walmart.
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Does the Remington or the Federal have a better energy dump?
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 1:03:42 AM EDT
The best energy dump I have is in the morning right after a strong cup of coffee. I dont think Remington or Federal can beat that... [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 6:14:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: The best energy dump I have is in the morning right after a strong cup of coffee. I dont think Remington or Federal can beat that... [rolleyes]
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No, but home-made ale the night before can. Especially a nice stout. Not much use for home defense, though. I make my own, and don't care what gun writers have to say about it. 75 grain Hornady at 5.56 level. Larry
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:17:34 PM EDT
For your situation, I will list my favorites in order: 1. Black Hills 77 gr Nosler NATO spec 2. Hornady TAP or Black Hills 75 gr OTM 3. Black Hills 68 gr OTM 4. Federal or Black Hills 69 gr OTM 5. Winchester 64 gr Powerpoint (or Powerpoint Plus) If you are worried about stability and the 75 and 77 gr loads aren't accurate enough to suit you (at 50 yards or less it isn't likely to matter much anyway), you can always drop down to the Hornady 68 gr. It isn't quite as good as the two loads mentioned before it, but it is still very good. It also offers low muzzle flash and tends to be very accurate. -CH
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:28:54 PM EDT
I was going to ask you how a bullet selecction was going to make a low-flash load, but realized you must be talking about the Black Hills. Since the asker might not know, the Black Hills 68 grain load is the best way to get a good load with this bullet, short of making it yourself (if you're a good loader). The Black Hills is good stuff. In small quantities Georgia Precision is a fine supplier. http://www.georgiaprecision.com/cart/items/BH223RemNew.htm
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:09:06 PM EDT
OHIO MEMBER, when you make your own 75 grain 5.56 pressure do you use nato brass? Or is it just .223. Do you use .223 dies or is there a 5.56 dies. I'm interested in doing the same thing but I've never even reloaded before, so I'm just curious. If you ask me, you got the right idea. jj
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:34:02 PM EDT
I have used both PMP and Lake City brass. The PMP is excellent stuff. You do NOT want to use Remington (RP) brass, it is soft. Remember to make sure the cases are fully sized, and trim to length anytime you load for ARs. The .223 dies work fine; they size smaller than 5.56 spec would if they existed anyway, so it's safer. If you have never loaded before, try to find an experienced loader, and read *everything* twice. These are very high-intensity loads, not good beginner's meat. Be very careful. Larry
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:59:48 PM EDT
OHIO MEMBER, please excuse my ignorance but what is pmp? I've shot pmc before but no pmp. And again is that just nato brass? Lake City is NATO brass, right? Just like all the black hills is nato brass, right? I saved some from a blue box I shot once and it's definitely longer than the .223 brass I've saved. Plus I've heard that the nato brass might make your groups better because it brings the bullet closer to the grooves. Have you had this experience? Something about leade. The chamber is different on 5.56. Some say it doesn't matter, others say it does. And finally the brass is supposedly thicker with nato brass which means two things, less powder capacity but more strength. Do I got this right in your opinion?
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 10:11:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: For your situation, I will list my favorites in order: 1. Black Hills 77 gr Nosler NATO spec 2. Hornady TAP or Black Hills 75 gr OTM 3. Black Hills 68 gr OTM 4. Federal or Black Hills 69 gr OTM 5. Winchester 64 gr Powerpoint (or Powerpoint Plus) If you are worried about stability and the 75 and 77 gr loads aren't accurate enough to suit you (at 50 yards or less it isn't likely to matter much anyway), you can always drop down to the Hornady 68 gr. It isn't quite as good as the two loads mentioned before it, but it is still very good. It also offers low muzzle flash and tends to be very accurate. -CH
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Good post, Thank you, Ants
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 4:47:03 AM EDT
PMP is Praetoria Metal Pressings out of South Africa; the makers of their military ammo. The brass is military spec, near as I can tell. Really nice. Century has it cheap; just Google on 'PMP' 'ammunition'. NATO brass can be from any NATO country; USA's NATO brass comes from Lake City. IMI is NATO, Olympic, Santa Barbara, Radway Green; anything with a circled cross. Lake City, PMP are my favorites to load, PMC is good. The :heavier brass=less powder room" thing is a holdover from the .30 caliber stuff; I haven't been able to document through testing any difference in 5.56 brass. Larry
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 5:34:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: The best energy dump I have is in the morning right after a strong cup of coffee. I dont think Remington or Federal can beat that... [rolleyes]
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I saw that comeing a mile away,it made me laugh any way.Thanx devl,I needed that.
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