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Posted: 10/3/2003 10:15:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2003 10:17:02 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
I was visiting a site I often look at ammunition on, and I noticed a new addition to their ".223" lineup.

www.outdoormarksman.com/merchant/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=om&Product_Code=93592&Category_Code=CR-090-223RM

I've never seen Q3131/Q3131A packed in a box like that, and you can indeed see the Q3131 on the side. Is this new manufacture? Also, notice the price is exceeding low @ $159.99/box considering that from what I've seen Q3131/Q3131A has become more scarce as of late compared to 4 months ago (still rather plentiful). Which leads me to believe the MSRP is set low by Winchester because they are manufacturing a whole lot of it again.

Also, if anyone has this ammunition, have you chronographed it? Sure, it's PROBABLY loaded the same way Q3131/Q3131A always has been, but you never know if they have switched powders on a new manufacturing line. It happens. I have my fingers crossed that it will proppel the 55gr bullet @ XM193 velocities (although, I do consider this unlikely).
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 12:37:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 1:19:01 PM EDT
[b]Description: Velocity 3270 fps, Energy 1285 ft lbs, Boxer primed reloadable brass case, non-corrosive, Made in the USA.[/b] Well, either it is new production or else it is Q3131A in which the "made in USA" statement is incorrect. Or it may be Q3131 ammo that was manufactured in or prior to 1999 that is still out there. Give em a ring or drop an email and ask. I am curious myself since I heard that IMI was no longer going to be producing M193 spec ammo for Winchester (if that isn't a rumor). If you find out be sure to let us know. -CH
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 6:48:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2003 6:50:49 PM EDT by Gloftoe]
marking it. Edit: Troy, if you click the link and look at the picture: [img]http://www.outdoormarksman.com/merchant/graphics/00000001/93588.jpg[/img] The box looks like nothing I've seen, but it says "5.56mm 55GR FULL METAL JACKET" and has "Q3131" on the flap as well. It IS an interesting development.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 7:09:21 PM EDT
The box looks like nothing I've seen, but it says "5.56mm 55GR FULL METAL JACKET" and has "Q3131" on the flap as well. It IS an interesting development.
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Exactly. I am going to try to get ahold of them on Monday unless someone else does sooner. I would just buy some except that I'm not in need of ammunition at the moment and orders have to be over $50.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 8:55:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2003 9:29:27 PM EDT by Gavino]
This ammo was boxed like this back in mid 90's Ive got some stashed away. I'll post a picture of it in a few minutes. Here they are. I paid $3.99 a box, I think I bought this around 94 time frame. [img]http://members.cox.net/gavino/q3131.jpg[/img] [img]http://members.cox.net/gavino/q3131re.jpg[/img] Later, Gavino
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 9:35:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 10:44:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: Yeah, IF the ammo they're selling is what's pictured, I'd bet that they're selling off some of those bad lots of '99-production ammo that were returned to Winchester. Caveat Emptor. -Troy
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VERY good point.
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 5:52:08 AM EDT
OOOOOOOOOOO got 2 cases of vintage 94 Q3131, that ammo is DA SHIT!! All kidding aside, check the year it was made, and if it is really q3131. I e-mailed them just now to find out.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 11:30:17 AM EDT
Thanks for clearing things up Gavino. I haven't been shooting .223/5.56mm long enough to have seen that packaging before. I have seen the later Q3131 packaging though and know a few places that are still selling Q3131. Troy, what makes you think these are the bad '99 lots? I highly respect you but I don't understand your knee-jerk reaction to this. Why do you immediately claim that they are "probably" selling bad '99 lots returned to Winchester? Don't you think Winchester probably demilled that ammunition rather than send it BACK out to the public and face possible law suits?
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 1:03:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 3:37:17 PM EDT
I am familiar with that history. I was under the impression by your statement:
I'd bet that they're selling off some of those bad lots of '99-production ammo that were returned to Winchester
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That Winchester would actually re-ship out returned ammunition that is years old and overpressure. I'd have a hard time believing that. You probably didn't think anything of that box as you've been in this longer than I have and have probably seen it before. But I (and others apparently) hadn't seen it before. I have seen boxes of Q3131 and they didn't look like that at all, they looked pretty similar to the current Q3131A. So I figured they must've taken a picture of a new production batch of Q3131.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 4:05:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 2:27:13 PM EDT by bnz42]
At the Des Moines gunshow this past weekend, a well known local dealer was selling new cases of Winchester Q3131 for $165. I did not check the headstamp date but the cases were newly arrived to the dealer, from the distributor. I had to double check to make sure the "A" was missing from the Q3131. Normally, this dealer sells Q3131A for this price.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 10:12:20 AM EDT
I just called them but I didn't have much time to ask many questions...he said that this is definately Q3131, that they just got it in, but he beleived it was 1999 manufacture. Bill
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 1:13:26 PM EDT
Here is the reply I received: We have both the Q3131 and the Q3131A in stock. The cases of Q3131 that I checked were from 1994, 1996, and 1999. We look forward to your business. OMC
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 1:24:07 PM EDT
I got a case of Q3131 from OMC that was headstamped 99. After reading a bit about it I tried to find out about bad lot numbers. I couldn't find anything other than a couple of specific lots mentioned in the complaints. I took the un-used case back to OMC and they exchanged it gladly for Federal XM193. The honcho at the gun show said he didn't know anything about bad lots of Q3131 ( doubtful but could be ) but he respected my concerns and took good care of me. If I see the same ammo again from them I would check for 94 or 96 lots. If so I would buy it but I still wouldn't risk the 99 unless I had good info on the bad lots.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 3:20:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 3:22:26 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 5:48:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By wyv3rn: I am familiar with that history. I was under the impression by your statement:
I'd bet that they're selling off some of those bad lots of '99-production ammo that were returned to Winchester
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That Winchester would actually re-ship out returned ammunition that is years old and overpressure. I'd have a hard time believing that.
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Believe it now? [:)] -Troy
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Not completely, but getting closer. They could've procured this ammunition from elsewhere. Why would Winchester KNOWINGLY send back out ammunition that could be potentially dangerous or even fatal (shrapnel through the eye, etc.) and has a high potential to cause a KB? Is it really worth the risk to make a couple thousand? I mean they sell millions in ammunition a year, why would they make such a stupid move and open themselves up to possible lawsuits? Do they have a record of doing this with other ammunition? Input is requested..
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 10:33:03 PM EDT
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