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Posted: 9/8/2003 10:33:50 AM EDT
These are some pretty cool videos about some of the new military technology coming out. There's particularly one video that stands out about ammo that will penetrate body armor, but will fragment and explode in soft body tissue. Anyway, check them out for yourself:

http://www.militarycity.com/blackwater/videos.html
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:20:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NewbHunter: These are some pretty cool videos about some of the new military technology coming out. There's particularly one video that stands out about ammo that will penetrate body armor, but will fragment and explode in soft body tissue. Anyway, check them out for yourself: [url]http://www.militarycity.com/blackwater/videos.html[/url]
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Link Posted: 9/8/2003 12:30:38 PM EDT
Did you see that 6.5mm AR? Would those cartridges use a standard AR magazaine?
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 2:29:17 PM EDT
You might want to read this thread: http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=9046084761&m=9846055883&p=1
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 3:24:46 PM EDT
Thank you for chiming in DocGKR. NewbHunter, you'd do well to listen to DocGKR. His work has set the example for all others to follow in the realm of terminal ballistic testing.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:25:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DocGKR: You might want to read this thread: [url]http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=9046084761&m=9846055883&p=1[/url]
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Thanks, Doc.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 7:11:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2003 7:00:29 AM EDT by urbankaos04]
Incredible. Mr. Bulmer is asserting that his ammo will exhibit different terminal ballistics based on the temperature of the target. So, if the target is at a lower temp the ammo will have greater penetration. But, if the ammo is at the same temp as that of the human body, then the ammo will produce incredible fragmentation. Is that about right? If there's one thing that I've learned as a lowly grad student it's that all research papers that have a hypothesis require the student to use specific research methods to PROVE his/her hypothesis. The student needs to adhere to these methods in order to produce a credible paper. No, I am not an experienced researcher, but I know enough that the statements made by Mr. Bulmer need to be based on empiracally based testing methods that can be replicated by other researchers in order to further prove or disprove his claims.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 8:21:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By urbankaos04: Incredible. Mr. Bulmer is asserting that his ammo will exhibit different terminal ballistics based on the temperature of the target. So, if the target is at a lower temp the ammo will have greater penetration. But, if the ammo is at the same temp as that of the human body, then the ammo will produce incredible fragmentation. Is that about right? As a graduate student, all research papers that have a hypothesis requires the student to use specific research methods to PROVE his/her hypothesis. There are specific protocols that the student needs to adhere to in order to produce a credible paper. No, I am not an experienced researcher, but I know enough that the statements made by Mr. Bulmer need to be based on empiracally based testing methods that can be replicated by other researchers in order to further prove or disprove his claims.
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He does not say it depends on the heat of the target. He states that it depends on how hot the target will make the round. He claims that steal will draw the heat away from the round allowing the round to penetrate while dry wall or flesh does not conduct the heat away from the round so the round heats up and fragments.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 8:30:18 PM EDT
It doesn't matter if it's poop, diarrhea or rank smelling green apple splatters, it's BULLSH*T however you interpret it!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 8:40:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 8:41:38 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By urbankaos04: Incredible. Mr. Bulmer is asserting that his ammo will exhibit different terminal ballistics based on the temperature of the target. So, if the target is at a lower temp the ammo will have greater penetration. But, if the ammo is at the same temp as that of the human body, then the ammo will produce incredible fragmentation. Is that about right? As a graduate student, all research papers that have a hypothesis requires the student to use specific research methods to PROVE his/her hypothesis. There are specific protocols that the student needs to adhere to in order to produce a credible paper. No, I am not an experienced researcher, but I know enough that the statements made by Mr. Bulmer need to be based on empiracally based testing methods that can be replicated by other researchers in order to further prove or disprove his claims.
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He does not say it depends on the heat of the target. He states that it depends on how hot the target will make the round. He claims that steal will draw the heat away from the round allowing the round to penetrate while dry wall or flesh does not conduct the heat away from the round so the round heats up and fragments.
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Thanks for clearing that up. Let's see what the Doc comes up with IF he gets to do MORE testing.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:40:32 PM EDT
FWIW you have to register, and log in, to read threads on the LF forum. No lurking allowed.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 5:59:06 AM EDT
To be honest I really don't know anything about this bullet fragmentation stuff. I just thought it sounded interesting and it seemed to be an important topic here, so that's why I posted it. There's also some other cool stuff in those videos too. Anyway, I really don't even care that much about bullet fragmentation since I would only target shoot with my AR (when I get it built), but I hope that you all enjoyed the videos!
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 2:21:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NewbHunter: To be honest I really don't know anything about this bullet fragmentation stuff. I just thought it sounded interesting and it seemed to be an important topic here, so that's why I posted it. There's also some other cool stuff in those videos too. Anyway, I really don't even care that much about bullet fragmentation since I would only target shoot with my AR (when I get it built), but I hope that you all enjoyed the videos!
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Well, it would be good to do some research. You might find stuff of interest at the [url=http://www.ammo-oracle.com/]AR15.com Ammo Oracle.[/url]
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 2:27:36 PM EDT
I love the Post roast vid..LOLOLOLOL
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 2:56:00 PM EDT
I've inquired with Duncan MacPherson about Stan Bulmer's absurd claim that body heat needed to make his bullets "deploy." MacPherson indicated that passing your finger through a candle flame, which is a few hundred degrees hotter than "body heat," without getting burned produces greater thermal effect on your finger than the 60-degree temperature difference between 39-degree ordnance gelatin and "body heat" has on a penetrating bullet. He showed to me that the time interval in which your finger is exposed to the heat of the candle flame is about 200 times longer (0.1 second) compared to a bullet penetrating 6-inches into ordnance gelatin (or soft tissue at "body temperature") at 1000 fps (0.0005 second). Therefore, the claim by Stan Bulmer of LeMas is disproven and false.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:24:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 3:25:52 PM EDT by DevL]
So did you ever get your box of Armor Piercing Limited Fragmentation ammo from RBCD, Dr Roberts? It seemed to me through that whole thread the words "Your box of ammuntion is in the mail" should have popped up but they never did... I mean didnt you offer to shoot the ammunition into live hogs? Isnt that what he claimed allowed the ammo to work so well on hunts? Deer and hogs... They funny thing is he claims it penetrates only 6" or so anyway. So if it works as advertised it still underpenetrates.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:12:14 PM EDT
I feel compelled to repost this... [url]http://www.ar15.com./forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=149017&page=3[/url] Tatja and I called BS on Bulmer's claims long ago. The Gumby part is my favorite [devil]
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 1:06:46 AM EDT
Sadly, Mr. Bulmer has not sent any of his "test" results or the ammunition we publicly requested.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 7:42:11 AM EDT
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but since I'm new to this whole AR thing I wanted to clear something up. Is this Mr. Bulmer guy that you keep talking about the guy who was in the video that I posted about the bullets that pierce armor, but fragment in tissue? So in otherwords his claims are bogus about his ammunition?
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 11:21:17 AM EDT
The levity provided by Gumby was a pleasant diversion from all the pathetic tap dancing. However what I found eerie is how closely Tatjana's thought processes mirror mine (although I'm nowhere near as sharp-witted and entertaining as she). Years ago a Navy buddy and I discovered that we both thought alike. He and I could finish each other's sentences, and we'd instinctively give each other a sly, "you're thinking what I'm thinking, aren't you?" look before we'd both unleash our mischief. We stirred up so much trouble together during the last 3 years of our enlistment that we were the terror of the command. I digress...
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 11:26:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2003 11:41:44 AM EDT by Shawn_Dodson]
So in otherwords his claims are bogus about his ammunition?
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The lack of any valid data from a reputable source should be evidence enough to make you wary of the claims being made. X
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 3:44:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2003 3:49:43 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
Hmmmmm, bullets that sense temperature? Whatta you call that creation anyway, smart bullets? [rolleyes] And I thought Magsafe and Glaser were a bad idea! While I am always pleased with what technological advances can do for us, some of this stuff is downright silly. I mean how long will it be before someone gets really, really out there? I someday soon expect to sit down and open up an issue of Guns and Ammo and see an advertisement that looks like this: [sarcasm]There is an unbelievably effective new round on the market called "Sidewinder" that uses a scaled down version of the seeker head used in the AIM-9 Sidewinder missile. This bullet will seek out badguys and destroy them in CQB situations with an extremely small thermonuclear detonating core that activates upon impact with soft tissue. This takes energy dump to a whole new level and creates a round more devastating and accurate than anything previously known to mankind. And because the nuclear detonation takes place and is contained within the body, there is no danger of fallout and is totally environmentally safe! Also available is a special helmet mounted sight that will allow you to aim, fire and guide your bullet to the target no matter what direction your gun is pointed. There is also a radar guided version for use in long range sniper rifles. This is the round of choice for the US Sky Marshals, secret service, FBI, DEA, ATF, CIA, US Navy SEALs, Delta Force, the Culver City Boys and Anna Nicole Smith's bodyguards![/sarcasm] And you know what's really sad? Someone would actually buy it! -Charging Handle
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