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Posted: 8/14/2003 9:28:51 AM EDT
I am trying to locate some information about the terminal performance of the Winchester Supreme 64 gr Power Point Plus (#SHV223R2). I know that Dr. Fackler, Dr. Roberts and other knowledgeable ammo experts have recommended this load for law enforcement and civilian self defense applications. But what I haven't seen to date is the actual penetration/expansion/fragmentation numbers for this particular round. I was going to attempt searching through past posts on tactical forums to see if I could track down any of this info but that board has been down for the past couple of days and I don't know when it may be up and running again.

Therefore, if anyone could give me penetration, expansion, temporary max cavity, recovered diameter, recovered weight, and % fragmentation data, I would be greatful. Also, information concerning muzzle flash from 16" barrels without flash suppressors would also be helpful. Firearms Tactical has a section on their page in which this round was tested in 2002 and from a 20" Colt 1:7 twist HBAR it acheived an average velocity of 2886 fps with a standard deviation of only 5 fps! I have to assume this is a great load but I would like to have the above data so I can compare it's performance directly to the various other loads such as Black Hills 68 gr OTM and Federal Gold Medal 69 gr OTM.

Oh, one more thing, has anyone seen any performance data yet concerning the new Federal Classic 64 gr SP? My latest Natchez master catalog lists this load and it's priced pretty low at $11.77 per 20 round box. It would be interesting to see how it stacks up against the oher recommended SP loads.

Thanks,

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 7:18:51 AM EDT
Please disregard this post. I posted this the day the power outage sent the server down and Troy answered my questions that night in chat. The penetration seems to be in the 14" range with expansion in the .40-.45" range. Based upon that I think I will stick with the BH 68 gr OTM I have been using. -Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:09:38 PM EDT
"The penetration seems to be in the 14" range with expansion in the .40-.45" range." Wow, that is purdy impressive.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 2:16:55 PM EDT
Actually, it is pretty impressive. Anytime you can get a .224 caliber SP to expand to twice it's original diameter or more, you have a good bullet. The Federal 55 and 62 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets also do a good job of expanding and are better at penetrating than the PP+. But as impressive as they are, they still create a smaller wound channel than a good fragmenting bullet. So IMHO, the SP's are probably better suited as a hunting round for the larger critters where you need a good expanding bullet but don't want to destroy more meat than necessary. And for self defense applications, a good fragmenting bullet like the Black Hills 68 gr, Black Hills/Hornady 75 gr or the Nosler 77 gr are probably the best choice. -Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 2:42:17 PM EDT
I have some of Winchester's 64 grain loads based on Dr Fackler's recomendation of it being the most effective round currently available to law-enforcement.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 4:12:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ekie: I have some of Winchester's 64 grain loads based on Dr Fackler's recomendation of it being the most effective round currently available to law-enforcement.
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Don't take this the wrong way, because the 64 gr PP is a great bullet. But Dr. Fackler made that statement before some of the latest and greatest ammo was available. Again, the PP+ is great ammo and it will get the job done, but it will still produce a smaller diameter wound than a fragmenting bullet such as the excellent 77 gr Nosler bullet outlined in the tacked thread at the top of this forum. It's pretty impressive to say the least. -Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 5:05:30 PM EDT
64Gn PP and 64GN PP+ are two different bullets. The older PP is more accurate in my experiance, and penetrates deeper, being designed as a deer load. The newer PP+ is a more fragile version, more appropriate for coyotes than deer.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 5:27:46 PM EDT
It's too bad the older one doesn't come standard with a cannelure. I know the Ranger load uses one, but good luck to non-LEO's finding any. The PP+ does use a cannelure and is more suitable to use in AR's. I wish Winchester made the CHP load commercially available. -Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 9:34:44 PM EDT
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