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Posted: 8/11/2003 10:22:37 AM EDT
Has anyone heard of these ? Here's the description from AIM Surplus:
New Commercial, 55grn, Zinc plated steel case, Non-Corrosive, Berdan primed, .223 ammunition. Shoots Great! Packaged in a super neat 580rd Military style "spam" can. 29 boxes/580rd can, 20ds/box. Includes can opener.

Seems unlikely that this is M193-spec. Erik from AIM didn't know either. Unfortunately, Silver Bear does not have a web presence to send questions off to. It's probably your run-of-the-mill 55gr FMJ steel jacketed bullet like all other Russkie ammo.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 11:21:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 11:35:44 AM EDT by DaPhotoGuy]
Originally Posted By zhukov: Has anyone heard of these ? Here's the description from [url=http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/_223.html]AIM Surplus[/url]: New Commercial, 55grn, Zinc plated steel case, Non-Corrosive, Berdan primed, .223 ammunition. Shoots Great! Packaged in a super neat 580rd Military style "spam" can. 29 boxes/580rd can, 20ds/box. Includes can opener. Seems unlikely that this is M193-spec. Erik from AIM didn't know either. Unfortunately, Silver Bear does not have a web presence to send questions off to. It's probably your run-of-the-mill 55gr FMJ steel jacketed bullet like all other Russkie ammo.
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Don't know anything about this 55 grn stuff. The 62 grain HP by Silver Bear are copper coated steel jacket. On the other hand, WOLF 55 grain is NOT a steel jacket it is copper. So your statement about all other Russkie ammo is incorrect. edited to add: The picture on AIM show that the round still has the red sealant around the neck/bullet. I personally have had a lot of FTE due to the sealant. Until Silver Bear stops using it (like Wolf has stopped) I won't buy any more of it. OTHER than the sealant issue it's pretty good ammo.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 11:30:39 AM EDT
It certainly isn't built to our specs, maybe some Russian or other foreign nation's specs. I am highly suspicious of these "mil-spec" claims you see in ads all the time. The Sportsman's Guide is currently selling aftermarket Pro Mag 20 rounders and are calling those "mil-spec" as well. If it doesn't say US mil-spec it doesn't mean much to me. And I read that very carefully. But yeah, you are correct in that it isn't M193 spec. If it was it would use brass cases and be boxer primed. It might be possible that it uses M193 bullets and loaded hotter than the other Russian ammo though. But I doubt it. -Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 11:36:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: It certainly isn't built to our specs, maybe some Russian or other foreign nation's specs. I am highly suspicious of these "mil-spec" claims you see in ads all the time. The Sportsman's Guide is currently selling aftermarket Pro Mag 20 rounders and are calling those "mil-spec" as well. If it doesn't say US mil-spec it doesn't mean much to me. And I read that very carefully. But yeah, you are correct in that it isn't M193 spec. If it was it would use brass cases and be boxer primed. It might be possible that it uses M193 bullets and loaded hotter than the other Russian ammo though. But I doubt it. -Charging Handle
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I just thought of this. How can it be Mil-Spec and still be .223? Wouldn't it be 5.56 then?
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 1:09:14 PM EDT
I tried the Silverbear HP stuff and had nothing but jams and problems with my J&T upper, bushy lower, never a problem with wolf. I think the HP was getting caught just under the fed ramps. At any rate, its FMJ for me from now on.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 3:11:40 PM EDT
Ok, doesn't any one recognize the box???? This is the same box that the 7.62 X 29 Uly comes in, and is also labeled MIL Spec. I would have to think that this is not U.S. G.I. Mil. Spec. It is just the name it is marketed under just like the 7.62 X 39.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:16:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: I tried the Silverbear HP stuff and had nothing but jams and problems with my J&T upper, bushy lower, never a problem with wolf. I think the HP was getting caught just under the fed ramps. At any rate, its FMJ for me from now on.
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I had the exact same problem with the SBr HP with my DPMS and USGI mags. Feeds the tip just below the feed ramps and the HP would catch on it. My Brit mags do not have the same problme. Of course, this NEW silver bear is FMJ.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:28:07 PM EDT
So far my RRA has fed everything without complaints, even with the sealant. I certainly don't doubt that it could be a problem in some guns though. I also highly doubted that "mil-spec" == M193, but you never know what those crazy russians are up to. Maybe it's mil=spec 'cause it comes in that cool ammp can.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:53:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2003 5:54:12 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By shotar: I tried the Silverbear HP stuff and had nothing but jams and problems with my J&T upper, bushy lower, never a problem with wolf. I think the HP was getting caught just under the fed ramps. At any rate, its FMJ for me from now on.
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I had the exact same problem with the SBr HP with my DPMS and USGI mags. Feeds the tip just below the feed ramps and the HP would catch on it. My Brit mags do not have the same problme. Of course, this NEW silver bear is FMJ.
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Do you guys have the extended M4 feedramps, good mag springs and the green follower? If so the bullet Silver bear uses must suck big time or they did not seat the bullet in properly.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 7:38:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Yojimbo:
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By shotar: I tried the Silverbear HP stuff and had nothing but jams and problems with my J&T upper, bushy lower, never a problem with wolf. I think the HP was getting caught just under the fed ramps. At any rate, its FMJ for me from now on.
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I had the exact same problem with the SBr HP with my DPMS and USGI mags. Feeds the tip just below the feed ramps and the HP would catch on it. My Brit mags do not have the same problme. Of course, this NEW silver bear is FMJ.
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Do you guys have the extended M4 feedramps,
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NO
good mag springs and the green follower ?
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YES
If so the bullet Silver bear uses must suck big time or they did not seat the bullet in properly.
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Like I said, it seemed to be more of an issue with my USGI mags than it did with the ammo. My brit mags work perfect.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 9:09:37 AM EDT
FSUE Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant, which is where this ammo is made, does not manufacture any ammo with a copper jacket. All of their stuff is bi-metal, ie copper-clad steel. The only "mil-spec" ammo they produce is M43 7.62x39 and 7N6 5.45x39, and other Russioan mil-spec, no NATO. I have their catalogue in front of me. Still go plinkin' fodder, though. BTW, I believe Tula (wolf) is the only plant in Russia to use copper jackets. Cheers, Chris
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 10:02:27 AM EDT
BTW if you have any questions about any of the "Bear" ammo, Zanders is the importer: http://www.gzanders.com/bearammo/ Cheers, Chris
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 2:54:35 PM EDT
I recently got an batch from them(aim).The zinc round's are strickly plinking bullet's.not to good ,not to bad.I fired them at the 300 yrd target,s just for shit,s and giggles.I fired two 5 rd groups and they hit upper torso but were pretty spread out.BUT,on the other hand the 62 grain black tip,s,now those thing;s did much better at 300,boy did they tear up the steel plate,s i fired at.I would feel safe ingageing target,s at 300 with the black tip,s or a car,they will plain tear up a car.I had a few double feed,s with the zinc;s.NO problem,s at all with the black tip,s
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 11:30:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 11:35:51 AM EDT by DaPhotoGuy]
Originally Posted By zhukov: Has anyone heard of these ? Here's the description from [url=http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/_223.html]AIM Surplus[/url]: New Commercial, 55grn, Zinc plated steel case, Non-Corrosive, Berdan primed, .223 ammunition. Shoots Great! Packaged in a super neat 580rd Military style "spam" can. 29 boxes/580rd can, 20ds/box. Includes can opener. Seems unlikely that this is M193-spec. Erik from AIM didn't know either. Unfortunately, Silver Bear does not have a web presence to send questions off to. It's probably your run-of-the-mill 55gr FMJ steel jacketed bullet like all other Russkie ammo.
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Here is an interesting email I got from Zanders about the silver bear ammo. [red] Phil, It DOES have the sealent around the neck. We are trying to address your issue with this sealent in some AR-15's. Your discussion has not fallen on deaf ears. These modifications do that [i](take?)[/i] some time. Bart Diane Buch Zanders Sporting Goods diane@gzanders.com[/red][blue] -----Original Message----- From: Phil Schmidt [mailto:daphotoguy@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 1:33 PM To: sales@gzanders.com Subject: Silver Bear 55 grain FMJ There is some 55 grain FMJ Silver Bear being sold at AIM Surplus (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/_223.html) I was hoping you could answer two questions about this ammo for me. 1. Does it still have the red sealant around the neck/bullet? I'm hoping it does not as this causes problems is many rifles. 2. Is the bullet a copper jacket or a bi-metal jacket? Thank you for your time, Phil Schmidt[/blue]
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 7:15:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 7:16:26 AM EDT by zhukov]
More e-mail from Zanders: My original question: [red]Thanks for your reply. I forgot to mention that this is for .223 caliber. The Russian military never used the .223, so I would assume mil-spec refers to some US spec, but you never know what's meant with "mil-spec". The most important issue is if this is a copper jacketed bullet, or the typical Russian bi-metal jacketed bullet. As you might be aware, the US military uses the M855 62gr FMJ bullet with a specific construction, and the older M193 55gr FMJ bullet with a thin gilded jacket. Both of these fragment at velocities of 2700+ fps. I was therefore wondering if this Silver Bear loading, aside from the steel case, used the M193-spec bullet. The Russian bi-metal (soft steel jacket, copper plated) bullets typically do not fragment.[/red] The reply: [blue]These are loaded with Russian Bi-Metal bullets. I am unaware of any bullet fragmentatatioin problems with Bear ammo. It does however expand properly upon impact. Bart [/blue] Hmmm. Kind of confusing, but I think we can infer that bi-metal FMJ's do NOT fragment, disagreeing with Bart here. I also would not expect FMJ bullets to "expand properly upon impact".
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 8:51:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zhukov: More e-mail from Zanders: My original question: [red]Thanks for your reply. I forgot to mention that this is for .223 caliber. The Russian military never used the .223, so I would assume mil-spec refers to some US spec, but you never know what's meant with "mil-spec". The most important issue is if this is a copper jacketed bullet, or the typical Russian bi-metal jacketed bullet. As you might be aware, the US military uses the M855 62gr FMJ bullet with a specific construction, and the older M193 55gr FMJ bullet with a thin gilded jacket. Both of these fragment at velocities of 2700+ fps. I was therefore wondering if this Silver Bear loading, aside from the steel case, used the M193-spec bullet. The Russian bi-metal (soft steel jacket, copper plated) bullets typically do not fragment.[/red] The reply: [blue]These are loaded with Russian Bi-Metal bullets. I am unaware of any bullet fragmentatatioin problems with Bear ammo. It does however expand properly upon impact. Bart [/blue] Hmmm. Kind of confusing, but I think we can infer that bi-metal FMJ's do NOT fragment, disagreeing with Bart here. I also would not expect FMJ bullets to "expand properly upon impact".
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They probably do not fragment that well? The 62 grain HP silver bear does. (see other thread) I guess the FMJ could make a big difference though. Guess it's time for someone to get out the trash can and water again.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 8:23:27 AM EDT
What about the Igman .223 SS109 Black Tip they have at aim, that would be better wouldnt it?
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 11:42:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebloke: What about the Igman .223 SS109 Black Tip they have at aim, that would be better wouldnt it?
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Of course. It's also much more expensive. Silver Bear is cheap plinking ammo. If I need SHTF ammo, I'll stick with M193.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 2:22:17 PM EDT
Well, I cussed my way through the last of the bear HP last weekend. This weekends funshow found Wolf 62 gr FMJ for $99/m. It was wolf to go. Had time to hit the range and fire 200 rounds. Same mags, Orlites, USGI, and one western steel. NO JAMS AT ALL WITH WOLF. Guess that settles where the problem lay. Wolf accracy in my 16" J&T upper. 4" black area on the bull, 100 yards, 4moa OKO red dot. Kept them all in the black at 100. No complaints here is the red dot covered the whole of the black in my site picture.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 4:00:16 PM EDT
Interesting. Well, I guess most people who complained about Wolf probably had problems with the sealant, not the coating. If I pick up some Q3131A tomorrow at BPS I'll be set for a while once the SA battlepacks come in.
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