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Posted: 8/10/2003 6:43:53 PM EDT
Anyone heard of this from FNH?

www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28system.htm

I'm trying to find any information about the cartridge. Sound pretty impressive as a tactical cartridge. I shot a five-seven handgun today. It shot like it was a .22. Very controllable, quick follow up shots. I was impressed.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 6:48:14 PM EDT
Modorator, please move to ammunition. Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 7:19:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vettman1: It shot like it was a .22. Very controllable, quick follow up shots. I was impressed.
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And judging by it's terminal performance, it might as well BE a .22. The only real reason the cartridge is effective at all is the P90, which has full-auto capability...meaning the multiple hits on a target make up for it's lack of terminal performance. The ONLY thing the cartridge has going for it is it's armor piercing quality. Of course you get the same thing out of a .223/5.56 with terminal performance to boot. I fear that police forces will be taken in by FN's marketing hype and that this weapon system will cost lives.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 5:36:56 PM EDT
I don't know if it would make a good anti personnel round (it's not my bag) but it sounds cool from the anti varmint point of view. Sounds like it's something less than the 223 but more than the .22hornet. Just what I needed another caliber to add to the want list! Fortunately they don't appear to be for sale to the public as of yet. I did find them on gunsamerica though.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:58:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By vettman1: It shot like it was a .22. Very controllable, quick follow up shots. I was impressed.
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And judging by it's terminal performance, it might as well BE a .22. The only real reason the cartridge is effective at all is the P90, which has full-auto capability...meaning the multiple hits on a target make up for it's lack of terminal performance. The ONLY thing the cartridge has going for it is it's armor piercing quality. Of course you get the same thing out of a .223/5.56 with terminal performance to boot. I fear that police forces will be taken in by FN's marketing hype and that this weapon system will cost lives.
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The cartridge supposedly has the same tumbling/fragmenting qualities as a .223. At least that's what the FHN rep told my friend. If you know of any independent tests on the round, I'd like to see them. They also stated that it was created to fill a void between an MP5 (9mm) and a M-4 (5.56). Although I only shot the rounds from the five-seven pistol, from the lack of recoil, I would bet that the P90 would be much more controllable than an full auto M-16. If I get a chance to shoot the P90 I'll give you a full report. Another reason I likes the pistol is that it had a 20 round mag! Pretty cool...
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:46:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2003 7:20:00 AM EDT by Cardinal]
There has been written much about this cartridge over on tacticalforums.com, but they are down at the moment. The conclusion was that it is as useless as Brouhaha said. Of course FN will never admit that.... Do a search for "5.7x28" or "P90" over on tacticalforums.com when they are operational again. Edit: I was able to enter TF.com. Check this link: [url]http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000050.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 7:20:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vettman1: The cartridge supposedly has the same tumbling/fragmenting qualities as a .223. At least that's what the FHN rep told my friend. If you know of any independent tests on the round, I'd like to see them.
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This is why you NEVER belive the factory rep - and why independant testing is important:
"Wound Profile of the 5.7x28mm FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun", Wound Ballistics Review Volume 4 Number 3, Spring 2000, Dean B. Dahlstrom, RCMP Forensic Laboratory, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada Kramer D. Powley, RCMP Forensic Laboratory, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada Cst. Gordon, Pope, Regina Police Service, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Plus I found these articles & comments as suggested by Dr Roberts:
Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90. --Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991. --Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997. --FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation. --Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001. --Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998. --Roberts G: “Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.”, AFTE Journal. In Press. The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......
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Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:05:31 PM EDT
Irregardless of your opinion on terminal ballistics, the fact is that the 5.7x28 is not a very useful cartridge. It's no secret that it was designed for one purpose and that was to penetrate ballistic vests. It does that very well with little recoil but that's about it. The 5.56 will do as much and more with a relatively small increase in recoil. The energy figures that I have seen were around 400 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. You can't do too much with that little energy. I've seen the cartridge and what it can do and I'm not impressed.
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