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Posted: 8/5/2003 8:07:53 AM EDT
Question:
Has anyone out there used a 69gr and or a 77gr Federal Gold Match hpbt .223 ammo on a 1-7 twist at 200yds or more?
Any replys more than welcome

THanks
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 1:53:01 PM EDT
Sub MOA from my Armalite M15A2 for the 69 gr.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 3:33:14 PM EDT
Sub MOA as well with 69gr in a Win M70 HBV, the only factory ammo that shoots better in this is Hornady TAP 75gr with BH75gr close behind.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 8:04:49 PM EDT
Thanks for the replys-----keep them comming guys
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 9:05:39 AM EDT
I shoot Fed. Gold Match 69gr. for long range shooting. I get sub 1 min. groups out of my Colt HBar 1:7 [img]http://image.uploader.net/uploaded/CA17V308.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 4:59:24 AM EDT
Took receipt of my new Rock River 16" M4 chrome lined with 1:9 twist last Thursday. On friday I took it to the hills. The most accurate load was the Fed 69-gr SMK BTHP. Was able to put 15 straight rounds into 1.990" at 100 meters. The reticle used is the amber triangle in a 2x compact ACOG (TA47-2). Big Al
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 9:49:02 PM EDT
I'm going to continue with this line of questioning if I may. In the morning, I will run up the canyon to test some of the Hornady 75 gr Match w/ Moly coating. Picked it up locally today. In a few days I should also receive a box of BH Red box 77 gr SMK from Tommy of Georgia Precision. My intent being to eventually purchase some of the new 77 gr NATO spec stuff Tommy is placing an order for from BH's ammo. My questions is this. If my RRA 16" 1:9 twist won't stabilize either of the heavier rounds, is the Fed Gold Medal 69 gr SMK a "next best" choice? I've yet to see any ballistic gelatin data or actual live shoot data on that round. Is the 73 gr BH stuff any good for injuns? In addition, Is their any external or terminal ballistic difference between Moly coated and non? Big Al
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 3:46:21 AM EDT
The 75 should be okay but if you try them at longer ranges 500 + in any wind expect some erratic shots out of call esp with the 77's. 69's should shoot well but all depends on how good of a shot U are of course ... ')
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 7:07:18 AM EDT
I might be able to help you with the terminal ballistics questions. The following information comes from Dr. Gary Roberts and at least the 68 and 69 gr tests can be found in "Wound Ballistics Review. 3(4):16-28, 1998". All were tested in a 16" AR carbine with 1:7 twist barrel. Here are the results: Black Hills 68 gr OTM Lot # 504041253 Velocity: 2615 fps Penetration: 12.1" Temporary cavity max diameter: 9.0cm Recovered diameter: 0.39" Recovered length: 0.23" Recovered weight: 31.5 gr Fragmentation: 53.6 % Federal 69 gr OTM Lot # 29B-0445 Velocity: 2646 fps Penetration: 14.7" Temporary cavity max diameter: 10.0 cm Recovered diameter: 0.40" Recovered length: 0.19" Recovered weight: 27.5 gr Fragmentation: 60.2% Black Hills 73 gr JHP Moly Match Lot # 99-9 1203032389 Velocity: 2516 fps Penetration: 12.0" Depth to initiation of yaw (neck): 2.8" Temporary cavity max diameter: 3.9" at 5.1" Recovered diameter: 0.50" Recovered length: 0.20" Recovered weight: 28.2 gr Despite what Berger says, the 73 gr is best stabilized in rifles with at least a 1:8 twist rate. Some people have found success with the Black Hills 75 gr loads in 16" 1:9 twist carbines. But many have not. It seems that some 1:9 twist barrels are closer to 1:8 while some are closer to 1:9. This is the only explanation I can think of as to why some people can use them with good results and others cannot. But the 69 gr is the heaviest OTM load that ANY 1:9 can effectively stabilize. It won't hurt to buy a box of the heavier loads and test them. If you get decent accuracy then you may want more of them. If not you aren't out that much money and can switch to the lighter ones. For me, it's hard to call which is better between the 68 and 69 gr bullets. I like them both. But I have had excellent results in terms of accuracy from a Bushy 16" 1:9 carbine with the Black Hills 68 gr load. My carbine is more accurate with it than the 69 gr Federal. This load also has very little muzzle flash. Another thing I like about it is the fact it also has a shorter neck than the 69 gr SMK's, which may be important to you if it's gonna be used in defensive situations. And it just so happens that this load is also much cheaper than the Federal Gold Medal or Black Hills 69 gr SMK. But since both offer adequate performance, pick the one that shoots better in your rifle and has the least amount of muzzle flash. I hope this info was helpful in some way. If you need more information regarding the 68 gr Black Hills, IM member "Forest". He has used this load extensively and he might be able to give you some more details such as the ballistic coefficient of the bullet, etc. Dr. Roberts has concluded that this bullet is still fragmenting down in the 2350 fps velocity range. With some more ballistic info about this particular round you may be able to determine the envelope in which it will reliably fragment. Good luck! -Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 9:41:01 AM EDT
Charging Handle, Thank you very much for the info you have presented. Very useful. I tested the Hornady 75 gr OTM Moly coat this am at 100 meters. Two 5-shot groups went 1-15/16" and 1-5/8". The FGM 69 grainers just went into 2" too. Do you suppose a 200 meter test would be in order for both the 69 and 75 grainers to see if anything is going on, good or bad, at that range? Big Al
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 10:23:27 AM EDT
Al, If you were getting results that good with the 75 gr stuff @ 100 meters, give it a try at 200 and see what it will do. You may find it adequate. But with groups doing better than 2" @ 100 already. I would have no problem using it for home defense or other CQB type applications. To be honest, I can't envision many defensive shooting encounters where shots in excess of 100 yds would be likely anyway. It appears you are one of the lucky ones whose 1:9 gives satisfactory performance with 75 gr bullets. -Charging Handle
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