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Posted: 7/6/2003 5:43:19 AM EDT
I've been hearing this round talked about in very non-descript circumstances. I gathered that it is supposed to be a .277 caliber round that will have more long range impact than the 5.56 x 45. Can anyone fill in some details with the facts? Oh, and why not go with a 6.5 or 7 mm? those are used in long range competition at most ranges, there are accurate bullets already being made, I would think that would help with the developmental stages. It is something the military is doing, right?
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 10:31:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 11:00:54 AM EDT
From what I've seen this is a pretty popular topic on this site. If you remember about one year ago there was some issue about the effectiveness of the 5.56.(especially the M4/M855 combo) It seems that all of this started with a single AAR from A'STAN from some guy who participated in Operation Anaconda. From what I gather the 6.8mm was a program to develop a more effective cartridge for longer ranges and better incapacitation. Apparently the R+D team created a cartridge that accomplished both goals. The most recent news I’ve heard is that the Picatinny arsenal killed the program. This is due to the huge success of the newer 77gr MK262 Mod 0 and 1 loadings. (which in my personal opinion may be the ultimate 5.56). The 6.8 will see use (very limited use) I think Black Hills makes the ammo. It uses standard magazines, but you can’t fit 30 into them. This is because the round (I heard) uses a fatter rebated case. Hope this helps. Calvin
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 12:04:22 AM EDT
Guys, just wait a little longer and you'll see... 6.8 is going to be the cat's @ss. FWIW, Hornady and Black Hills are developing (or have developed?) loads for this caliber. It has some VERY interesting characteristics, to say the very least. -Cap'n
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 7:15:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 7:20:16 AM EDT by danonly]
Originally Posted By Capn_Crunch: Guys, just wait a little longer and you'll see... 6.8 is going to be the cat's @ss. FWIW, Hornady and Black Hills are developing (or have developed?) loads for this caliber. It has some VERY interesting characteristics, to say the very least. -Cap'n
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You are saying this like you know some details. Do you have a gag order? If not, I want to know the details, man, the Details! This thread was created for people to share their info, not their nondescript - "it will be some good stuff hype" ps every time i have heard "it will just be a little while longer" and it involved the government, it takes lots of MONTHS, if not YEARS!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 9:05:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 9:08:30 AM EDT by mach6]
In talking to a number of folks at the last SHOT Show, I learned the following: Pete Forras at Leitner-Weise developed the loading. David Emary at Hornady developed the 115 gr projectile. There's a guy who made the mags, but I forgot his name. The SOF folks that are ram-rodding this project want to keep a lid on ostensibily (emphasis added) so as not to "be inundated with unsolicited proposals from industry before the cartridge is worked out." I have a more cynical reason relating to securing post-retirement employment opportunities, but that's just a guess and perhaps unfair. Indeed, whatever the reason for this veil of unofficial secrecy surrounding this cartridge, the politics run deep, very deep.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 4:58:20 PM EDT
Well, I don't know the whole story, I'll be the first to admit that. I've just heard a LOT about the performance specs, but a few folks that give info from time to time made me give my word i wouldn't go into that. If I say too much, then I won't be able to glean more info later on. I can tell you who's developing what, but can't say too much about what it is being developed. If you want to know more about the platform, Troy Industries is a good place to start. The mags are being made by Dave Dunlap of PRI, and as said before Hornady and Black Hills are working on the ammo. It's true that SOF DOESN'T want this info out there, so they'll get stuck with aother "SPR". Something they don't want, or necessarily need, purchased because of kick-backs, etc. Sorry about that, but I'm not the biggest fans at the folks at Crane, or Reed Kn... Oops, I'll leave THAT for another post, hehe. -Thanks! -Cap'n
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 6:10:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 6:13:42 PM EDT by Andreuha]
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/bullet.html[/url] Should be interesting should it ever be fielded or even produced commecially
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 7:01:20 PM EDT
Thank you greatly for the link. A few pieces of 6.8 SCAR brass have recently been obtained for characterization and fabrication of requisite chamber reamers. "The game is on", as the old saying goes.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 9:43:22 PM EDT
Wow... The fellow behind that site has to be one well informed fellow, hehe. -Cap'n
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 1:16:45 AM EDT
The phrase "All hat, No cattle" comes to mind. This is the same sort of "logic" that produced the .40 S&W. They are either building a barrel burner with controllability problems or a 2500 fps. AK clone. There is no supa secrit rainbow round (AS JD well knows)
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 3:39:37 AM EDT
Well, when people say give it time they mean in gov't parlance. In the military procurement system it is very rare for things to happen overnight-it may take a few years (the average I have seen in a hurry is 2-3 years). In a project you have a lot of boxes that have to be checked and signatures to be had. So don't hold your breath. Just sit back wait and see-If the mystical beast is being developed how wrong and possibly uninformed sounding some of these posts may be when the real info comes to light. I myself can't wait-but hey, I don't think this thing in whatever caliber is being developed for peoples sake that post here or anywhere else or that aren't military or have a specific need and "just want to know". But hey that is just my opinion, like it or not.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 10:41:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KMFDM: -If the mystical beast is being developed how wrong and possibly uninformed sounding some of these posts may be when the real info comes to light. I myself can't wait-but hey, I don't think this thing in whatever caliber is being developed for peoples sake that post here or anywhere else or that aren't military or have a specific need and "just want to know". But hey that is just my opinion, like it or not.
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While it is obvious that you are correct in that it is being developed for military or "have a specific need" type people (like I need a specific need to have a CCW liscense, or i need to have a specific need for that extra AR-10, or a specific need for that extra 1000 rounds, etc etc.) It is foolish to think that the military can get something right by itself, in secrecy. Andreuha---Thank you for the info: www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/bullet.html Should be interesting should it ever be fielded or even produced commecially Edited By ANDREUHA the guy that wrote up that site understands the military- lots of entrenched thinking, hard to get original thought out of comittees or where ever they make their big decisions. If the military provided its requirements and objectives to the general public, I would be more assured that the result would meet those requirements and objectives than meeting the contract request of some hometown business of some politician.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 5:46:21 AM EDT
danonly: You may be right you may be wrong. Like I said until the whole truth comes out IMHO it is better not to speculate, Nobody knows who has been consulted now do they? If it is a "Special Forces" initiave as some claim, one might think they have access to alot more info and people "in the know" than you or me, and I would guess if "they" find you and ask you for help in a project they might ask you to keep quiet about it for awhile IMHO. But hey, like I say I may be wrong-only time will tell. And if I had info like this thing that was trusted to me I would'nt be sharing it either-tends to make for bad return business. The guy who wrote some on the ctg. in question is probably working from the same info you and I are getting from the internet which would be my guess which to this point is still unproven data.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 8:15:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KMFDM: danonly: You may be right you may be wrong. Like I said until the whole truth comes out IMHO it is better not to speculate, Nobody knows who has been consulted now do they? If it is a "Special Forces" initiave as some claim, one might think they have access to alot more info and people "in the know" than you or me, and I would guess if "they" find you and ask you for help in a project they might ask you to keep quiet about it for awhile IMHO. But hey, like I say I may be wrong-only time will tell. And if I had info like this thing that was trusted to me I would'nt be sharing it either-tends to make for bad return business. The guy who wrote some on the ctg. in question is probably working from the same info you and I are getting from the internet which would be my guess which to this point is still unproven data.
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KMFDM is absolutly correct! Shortly after making my post (at the top of this thread) I was informed via email that the info I presented, was utterly incorrect! The lesson learned here for me, is that the most anyone knows about this new cartridge is that it is 6.8x 43mm. Anything other than that is most likely BS! When the time is appropriate we will all know Calvin
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