I need help from the suppressed fans! I need to build my own subsonic ammo so I can shoot more.  I need some reloading recipes for both .223 and .308  subsonic.  All my cans are rated for supersonic/fullauto but shorter life will insue. Nun-the-less the factory subsonic is harder to get and Wal Mart can't order it for me. It cost to much to buy bulk from the same lot and my zeros change from lot to lot, I percision reload everything else anyway. The uppers that I use with the cans are custom uppers built for percision.  Any help! No whisper info. please! Thanks.

Simper Fi.

Not all .22LR is subsonic and you want to go slower?  Whatcha shooting at?  A 45gr .22LR will probably do as much or more damage than a 55gr 5.56mm bullet, expecially since the .22LR is soft lead and will deform on contact.

I can't begin to imagine a use for subsonic 7.62mm NATO.

Subsonic .45ACP or .45-70 or similar I do understand because the bullet size makes up for the lack of velocity.

-- Chuck

First, I said nothing about .22 LR and the heaviest .22 LR that I know of is 60gr. And the heaviest .223 is 90gr and it's a VLD as is the 240gr 7.62.  They will fix just about any problem with the same noise of a .22 short out to 300yrds with surgical percision. Just with the 90gr and the 240gr's shape and grains at 1000 fps you figure it out. Now I ask you, does any of this make sence or do I also have to describe its application?


Reach out and touch someone and be quiet about it!

Semper Fi.

What is this, 2 threads where you've touted yourself as being the consumate "professional" while lecturing to others.

You've suggested that you have the appropriate gear to push these projectiles so fill us in, just what twist rate are you using for said .308 240grain pills or for the .224 90grain pills?   Why don't you further educate us, [I]percision[/I] reloader that you are and all.

John --

Actually I said something about .22LR and am still wondering why you're trying to turn 5.56mm NATO into something slow and ineffective.

If you want to practice shooting with the supressor use .22LR.  Will probably be about as ineffective as slow 5.56mm will be.

Same same for 7.62mm.  Supressor is great for long range full velocity shooting where the sonic crack will still be heard, but from most listening positions the firing position will be hard to detect.

I am a fan of subsonic loads and find more pleasure in reloading my own which is cheaper and more rewarding.  I don't have any information on the .308 but do on the 5.56mm.
The load data comes from Accurate Smokeless Powders Volume 2 on page 187.
Data:
Powder: Accurate Solo 1250
Primer: REM 7 1/2
4.2 Grains with the HDY 60 gr SP
4.5 Grains with the HDY 75 HPBT

I've reloaded both these loads and fired out of my Colt M16A1, 11.5" barrel, and AWC Raider Suppressor.  The results were as follows:
60 GR SP - at 25 yds, .64 group and avg vel of 975fps.  At 50 yds, the group was .90.  
75 GR HPBT - at 25 yds, .45 group and avg vel of 920fps.  At 50 yds, the group was 1.25.  The bullet also started to tumble at the 50yds based on the impact print on the target.  I did not have a chance to load another batch with more powder.

Conditions on the range at the time was 85 deg and 46% humidity.  Calm wind.

I have tested the Engle Balistic Research ammo and found the accuracy on my configuration to provide about 1.5 inch groups at 25 yds and 3.0 inch groups at 50 yds.  At 100 yds with the EBR, the groups were more like 7 inches and the vel was between 870fps and 1020fps.  

That is the extent of my testing with my own loads.

Thanks, D-1

It's what I was looking for, a starting point.

If your floating subs you know what I'm talking about with the price at $52 a box.  I had Heart make me a 10.5" barrel with 1:6 so I can try to work with the 90's.  I'm not sure if I spent too much for this upper just to try to build subsonic loads. It loves the 80's at 2420fps.

Thanks again Delta-1.

Simper Fi.

peeshooter -

There is a good article in the September 2003 release of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement on the .308 subsonic.  They discuss a new rifle -- the AI/ST AWC .308 -- but go into great details on the tests conducted.  They do not provide any load data but the accuracy was great out to 200 yds.  They talk about the effective range of the subsonic .308 out to 300 yds and discuss some special rounds used that compensates for the lower velocity.  

D-1

I'm looking for some subsonic 5.56 that will cycle my M4gery's action.  I think that would be the shizit through my suppressor!

CAR-15 - I have been on a long search for load data for 5.56 subsonic loads that will cycle the action.  I have not been able to find any data on this and do not plan to experiment till I either blow myself up or find the right combination.  However, in my search, I have found three places that make and sale subsonic loads that will cycle the actions.  The bad news is two of the three only sell to the military.  The price the military pays is not cheap... they cost $7.50 per round.

The one that will sell to the general public is Extreme Shock   http://www.extremeshockusa.com/pages/welcome.html

This ammo is expensive at $70 for 20 rounds.  I broke down and bought one box to try out.  The bullet is around 124 gr.  When I tested these rounds, they fire around 980fps.  At 25 yds the accuracy is about 1.00" and at 50 yds it was about 3.00" hover in my config (11.5" colt upper with AWC suppressor) the bullet tumbled.  I verified after my first shot that it did not strike my suppressor.  I fired 5 rounds FA and it cycles great.  However, the noise from the bolt is pretty load.  I think at this price I will keep with the one shot rounds or invest in a .22 upper and run cheaper ammo.  The only drawback to the .22 ammo is it makes the can dirty inside very quick.  Good luck.  If you ever find load data, please share.

D-1

I have a valve on my gas tube to insure the bolt will not cycle and to tune the bolt speed with the supersonic loads or close it all-together for the confused signiture.

I'll check out the G&A artical for some clues, if there are any.

The practice that I use is the subsonics are the top two rounds in a 20rd mag with the other 18 supersonic. I may have a much more dificult time with mag length 90's. I don't ever want to go to a filler in the load because of the crud.  All the crud has to go somewhere and if the can is in place it seems that all the crud is in the can.

If I ever get some good loads for both rounds I will email you as to what I have and the results with the details. This way you may get better groups and more enjoyment from your own loads.

I do go that extra mile with my loads so you may want to do only what you feel is important. I sort cases by volume after fire forming , uniform OAL, recut and debur the flash hole, turn the necks, uniform the primer pockets, and annel. Some of this may be confusing but when I start the test process I can get the same results time after time. I have high quality body dies to small base specs. to insure cycling. This shortens the life of the cases but with the price of buying new match ammo you still save a lot.

I have thought about getting an upper made by J D Jones in his .300 Whisper but thats just another case that I would have to gear up for. But it may be the way I end up going. I jut don't like the idea of it being so specilized without the backup of faster ammo in a pinch. I don't know enough about the .300 to make any hard fast decisions.

Thanks for you help.

Semper Fi.