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Posted: 6/16/2003 9:49:57 PM EDT
Before the link to the 'ammo oracle' gets posted, let me say I've read it. As a matter of fact, it is on my favorites list.

What I need is some actual hands on advice from those who may have experience with my question.

Okay. I have a pre ban Colt Match HBAR with a 20 inch 1/7 twist barrel. I'm going to be shooting at ranges from 200-400 yards. Not competition, but I still want to be accurate. I tried a few different brands of 55 grain fodder, but wasn't pleased.

What weight would work best? I'm guessing something at least 62 grain or more, right? What weight have you guys had the best luck with? Reloading isn't an option, so it has to be factory loads. I've seen Federal Gold Medal in 69 grain weight and heard good things about it, albeit from a bolt gunner.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


-REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 10:19:56 PM EDT
68 or 75/77gr BTHP?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:15:39 AM EDT
check with georgiaprecision they can help you out, plus they have sale on blackhills ammo now. SIZZLIN SUMMER SALE!!!! STOCK UP NOW AND SAVE! ALL Black Hills AMMO On SALE, Through MONDAY, JUNE 30, 2003 and Only for AR15.com members! Take 10% off your online purchase. We will email you a confirmation of 10% off your online purchase total until Mon, JUNE 30, 2003 at noon. Save 10% plus get FREE SHIPPING! HOW CAN YOU BEAT THAT! SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS: Please note on your Online order in the "Comments Section" that you saw this ad on AR15.com and are a member to get the discount. We will figure your 10% off the bottom line and email you an invoice. Please Note! All .308 Ammo is only 5% off during this sale! THIS SALE DOES NOT APPLY TO OUTR.338 LAPUA MAG AMMO. This sale ends JUNE 30, 2003, 2003 at noon. Stock up now and Save! GPSS 478.994.4560 [url]www.georgiaprecision.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:23:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 9:24:15 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Suggestion above of both Black Hills and 77s are good , but BH 77 SMKs are probably gonna work the best, for mag length rounds. Ya can handload them, for better accuracy, but suggest ya try them to see if rifle likes 'em. Mike
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:34:28 AM EDT
A 55grain bullet could be fairly accurate, or atleast just as accurate as the heavier bullets. Difference is what they do if there's a breeze or a good wind. The heavier bullets will definitely be blown around less on their path out to 400+ yards, that can help to hit the intended target. But in some instances, 200-400 yards the 55grainers might get you on target with less bullet drop and with shorter time of flight if you get a good load. If you are gonna try your hand at varminting, maybe look into the 55-60grain Hornady Vmaxes. Not only are they generally pretty accurate but they'll make the most pleasing "pop" when you hit those varmintcong.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 11:48:24 AM EDT
By the way, if you want one of the best performance available in .223/5.56 beyond 300 yards, you gotta go with 77gr OTM NATO loading. 68/75gr BTHP or 77gr SMK loaded to SAMMI are still very good choices. 55gr runs out of gas after 200 yards (that is from 20")
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 12:11:56 PM EDT
Okay, not to sound stupid but what does SMK mean? I am definately ignorant when it comes to ballistics. I'll be doing most of my shooting about 1 mile from the ocean, so wind is going to be a major factor. Again, not to sound stupid, but where would I be able to find this 77 OTM NATO load? Is it something that is readily available? Thanks for all the input. -REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 12:40:24 PM EDT
SMK = Sierra Match King The 77gr OTM Nato load can only be purchased through Tommy at Georgia Precision for us civilians. That is the 'Group Purchase' that is going on now. Wait a few weeks and I'll be posting data on the load. Till then use the standard Black Hills 77gr OTM loading. Its going to be just as accurate - just a bit slower (which won't effect accuracy - just wind drift a bit).
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:08:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By REAPER2502: I've seen Federal Gold Medal in 69 grain weight and heard good things about it, albeit from a bolt gunner. What do you guys think? Any suggestions would be appreciated. -REAPER2502
View Quote
Try the Hornady 75 gr. reloads from: http://www.radomski.us/njhp/major.htm I shot my first match with this ammo and it is accurate and consistant. At 200 yards I can easily hold the 10 ring, and put six shots in a row into the 'X' ring. It is not loaded to the razors edge pressure wise, so at 600 yards you need to be good at reading the wind.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:43:17 PM EDT
What type of price are we talking for these? -REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 7:45:58 AM EDT
Generally Black Hills Blue Box (remanufactured with Lake City brass). 68gr - $16 for a box of 50 75gr - $18 for a box of 50 77gr - $23 for a box of 50 For new ammo (Red Box) the price just about doubles. However there is no performance difference between them.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 4:58:39 PM EDT
If you can find it try Hornady TAP 75 gr, shoots best in both my 1:7 223s. It is a bit pricy but can be had for $13/25rnds if you look long enough - picked up my last 200 for $10/20 at a gun show. Black hills 75 is good as well as is FGMM 69.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:54:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By REAPER2502: What type of price are we talking for these? -REAPER2502
View Quote
$255 per 1,000. That's .25 per round for MATCH ammo. Under 1 moa at 200 yards through my tuned service rifle.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:29:09 PM EDT
I appreciate all the advice. I am going to shop around for the best price. I have a get togther with some friends about once a year and we all chip in $15 and see who the best shot is. Best shot takes all. I want to be able to whip everyone this time. We shoot about 1 mile from the beach and most of the time the wind is at our back. I'm not really a great estimator of wind speed but I would say about 10-20 mph. What type of welocity could I expect from some of these rounds under these tailwind speeds? I would be of course using a 20 inch 1/7 Colt HBAR. Temp probably about 50-60 degrees. What type of accuracy have you guys experienced? -REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:45:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By REAPER2502: We shoot about 1 mile from the beach and most of the time the wind is at our back. I'm not really a great estimator of wind speed but I would say about 10-20 mph. What type of welocity could I expect from some of these rounds under these tailwind speeds? I would be of course using a 20 inch 1/7 Colt HBAR. Temp probably about 50-60 degrees. What type of accuracy have you guys experienced? -REAPER2502
View Quote
It all depends on the range. Tailwinds are going to cause you to shoot slightly high, but they won't add any real velocity to the round. Figure around 2,800 FPS. Accuracy depends on the rifle. A Colt H-bar should give you 1-1.5 MOA with match ammo.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 1:38:39 PM EDT
I hate to sound so 'newbie' but I am really ignorant when it comes to anything other than the 55gr. All these rounds are magazine length right? At what weight do rounds start becoming too long for magazines? Is there a general rule of thumb? -REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 2:33:40 PM EDT
Generally anything up to 77 gr. is magazine length. The 80 gr. and heavier are single load only and usually exceed magazine length.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:14:15 PM EDT
VLD bullets are almost all single load items (75 gr A-Max, Bergers, JLKs, etc). The Sierra Match King 80 gr is not a VLD but is too long for magazine length.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:25:24 PM EDT
What would a good source for some of these rounds be? I've only found a few places that carry Black Hills, etc. Am I not looking in the right place? -REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:52:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 5:54:19 PM EDT by Cixelsyd]
Reap, I've found some of the Hornady TAP stuff at [url=http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=a-7002&category=Ammo&maxhits=20&keywords=a223remcaho]Natchez[/url] and Lane (Army Inf on the boards) had some a while back. [url=www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=6&CategoryID=7519&CategoryString=653+***+690+***]Midway[/url] has a good selection of Black Hills Blue and Red box, plus the 75gr Hornady Match loads. I hope those links work.[:D] CHRIS
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