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Posted: 6/5/2003 8:37:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:57:38 AM EDT by Collin]
I'll try to do the poll for you, DaPhotoGuy.

edited to say...I tried, I failed. How about this, post an answer to this question.

"Have you, personally, had any failures in an AR15 style rifle caused *directly* by the green coating on Wolf brand ammo?"

new edit: figured it out, here's the poll, remember, this is not my idea, it is DaPhotoGuy's idea, I just figured out how to do it. Thanks for the idea.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:55:44 AM EDT
Thanks Collin. I had figured out how to do it also but I like your wording better so I deleted mine.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:59:47 AM EDT
Just trying to help, thanks for the idea that will settle this forever, this is your baby, not mine, DaPhotoGuy. Maybe our esteemed moderator will tack it up at the top, yeah, I want it to be tacked up, make me feel powerful and important, I'll [beer] to that.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:03:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Collin: Just trying to help, thanks for the idea that will settle this forever, this is your baby, not mine, DaPhotoGuy. Maybe our esteemed moderator will tack it up at the top, yeah, I want it to be tacked up, make me feel powerful and important, I'll [beer] to that.
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That's why I wanted the poll. To settle the "I hear this, or I heard that..." crap. If you haven't used it, don't bitch about it. If you had problems, then post it. It will be interesting to see how many people REALLY do have problems with the ammo. I know it may not be super accurate but that's not the issue of the poll.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:03:28 AM EDT
I tried 100rds. once in my bushmaster, "0" failures. When I run out of my Guat. and SA I'll probably buy some more. I voted.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:44:37 AM EDT
No problems in my Olympic Arms.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:50:58 AM EDT
I voted NO, since I've never had one round even close to my chamber....
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:08:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 11:25:46 AM EDT by BillSP1]
I use Wolf ammo in my AK74 (and Barnaul), because that is all that is available. It performs flawlessly in this rifleI . But because of the bad (rumors?) that circulate about Wolf 223 ammo in AR15's, I do not buy or shoot Wolf in my AR15's. Good survey. I hope some REAL information will come out of it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:17:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jaeger_1969: I voted NO, since I've never had one round even close to my chamber....
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Dang. And I thought I was the screwed up newbie. Didn't need to skew the poll if you've never used it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:19:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BillSP1: This brings a couple issued to the forefront. 1) is it the less taper of the 223 (5.56) round that makes allegedly makes Wolf ammo unreliable in AR15 chambers? If so then the 5.45x39 chamber is unarguably tactically superior.
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I get your point, but there are many more issue than this to consider a chamber "tactically superior". The 5.45x39 has it's good points and bad points.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 11:07:20 AM EDT
I've only run about 300 rnds through mine with no problem. Got another 200 left and plan on buying more. So, you think this might settle the question once and for all? [:\] Well, good luck to you with that.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 11:23:53 AM EDT
Well Woodenword, probably won't settle it once and for all, but we will have some non-scientific information that one could use to make an informed decision. Of course we will always have some people shrieking that brand X ammo is terrible because they heard that their mother's sister's brother-in-law's barber's attorney's wife's bikini-wax specialist's gay lover had a problem with it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:40:11 PM EDT
Wow. Poll is looking like Wolf is safe to use so far. Doesn't mean it's the BEST, just safe.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:20:10 PM EDT
ive been through 8 cases with no problems, its good plinking ammo, but it is stinky. its not that accurate but at the price who cares, i do buy mil spec ammo for 100 yards or more.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:32:27 AM EDT
My only complaint about Wolf so far is that I've loaded 3k rounds onto M27 links before realizing that it'll be a PITA to pick up the links with a magnet. I've gone thru countless cases of Wolf and trying to work out a large order now for some more. Wish they would get their act together and release some cheapo 308.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:35:19 AM EDT
Its dirty dirty sh*t, but Ive never had any problems with it. But for just a little more I can get South African, which I prefer.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:50:42 AM EDT
3000 rounds, no problems.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:43:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 3:48:38 PM EDT by gootmacher]
Ok wolf users listen up! i have shot 8 cases of wolf 55gr through my bushmaster with no problems whatsoever, today i went shooting and had a case stick in the chamber. it wouldnt come out till i came home and tapped it out with a cleaning rod. i see no damage to my chamber or to the extractor, actually the steel case is softer than the extractor cause it ripped the edge off the case. the chamber was clean before i went to shoot, closer inspection to the chamber i found a white powder(probably laquer residue)on the walls of the chamber.i shit, i couldnt believe i finally got bit, it happened on about the 100th round of the day, i had my other ar that i was testing some reloads in so it didnt ruin my day. i will keep shooting wolf since i see no damage other than my pride, also its cheap and the average failure is 1 in 8800 rounds, cant beat that. wanted to tell you guys about it, it does happen, i know know.LOL! no big deal though since its easy to tap out and clean the chamber. I can honestly say it was the ammo on this failure, not the rifle since its the same rifle that ate 8800 rounds without a problem.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:04:40 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 9:04:28 AM EDT
Wolf ammo is steelcase junk, accuracy and quality sucks. Probably the most dirty ammo sold anywhere. Don't even waste your money on that crap when you can buy brass case american made quality amunition, better in everyway, and help out the economy. Don't give your money to the russians then bitch about the economy, that's all I have to say.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 2:16:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JustL00king: Don't give your money to the russians then bitch about the economy, that's all I have to say.
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Other countries need money too; and Federal isn't a *huge* part of the economy. Any bets I have fewer items, especially "big ticket" items, than you in the house from "evil" countries? Never mind, no reply is desired. But anyway, the Wolf stuff has such a horrible stench that I just can't bring myself to use it much. It's nice to not have to worry about the cases (I reload compulsively) but there is a limit to what I can tolerate! PMP isn't that much more, and is excellent .223 pressure ammo. I use a lot of it.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:03:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JustL00king: Wolf ammo is steelcase junk, accuracy and quality sucks. Probably the most dirty ammo sold anywhere. Don't even waste your money on that crap when you can buy brass case american made quality amunition, better in everyway, and help out the economy. Don't give your money to the russians then bitch about the economy, that's all I have to say.
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Yep, all the Wolf buyers in the U.S. are to blame for the economy. All that money they spend at U.S. gun shows, shops, online sales, etc. is terrible for our economy. The Russians economy is so much better than ours because they sell ammo cheaper than the U.S. can manufacture. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 5:11:43 PM EDT
This argument has been going on for a long time, and probably will go on for a long time to come. You will usually see four kinds of posts. There are the people who shoot it all the time and have no problems. The vast majority of people fall into this category from what I have seen. Then we have the people who at least tried the ammo and had a problem for one reason or another. Next will come the people who have used it and don't like the smell or how dirty the ammo is so they choose not shoot it. Last but not least, we have the dumbass' that will get on the internet and tell everyone that they shouldn't use this junk ammo for whatever reasons they can come up with. Of course while ranting about the ammo they will let you know that they have never tried it in their rifle. Just think if this argument was settled once and for all, what would we talk about in the ammo section? [:D]
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 6:48:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: Just think if this argument was settled once and for all, what would we talk about in the ammo section? [:D]
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Does anybody know what this ammo is? Is it any good? Did I pay too much? Who has a sale? Should I use 68 grain or 69 grain OTM bullets? Yes, I can be a smartass. Back to the show! Wolf Sucks!! Well, stinks anyway.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 12:28:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz: Yep, all the Wolf buyers in the U.S. are to blame for the economy. All that money they spend at U.S. gun shows, shops, online sales, etc. is terrible for our economy. The Russians economy is so much better than ours because they sell ammo cheaper than the U.S. can manufacture. [rolleyes]
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First of all if you buy wolf ammo most of the money is going directly to russia to buy more cheap crap ammo. Other words, directly out of the country. If you buy american made ammunition sure it will cost a little more, but that's because it's better quality, more accurate, BRASS cased, and the bullets actualy fragment. Almost if not all of your money stays here in the good ol USA, your buying an american product making jobs for AMERICANS! Taxes on the ammunition go to the government paying for all the things we americans enjoy from our government. If you buy american products your money stays here and helps the economy, you buy an imported product your money is going over sea. Wolf ammo is cheaper because it's steel cased crap period, not because they can manufacture it cheaper.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:43:14 AM EDT
Why do I care about buying American? This is capitalism, and if our boys think they need fat profit margins, they can blow a cock, as far as I'm concerned. Wolf is far from crap, and I'll vote with my dollars 'til a better product comes along. Maybe it'll be American, maybe it'll be foreign. Go capitalism, go Wolf!
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 7:34:17 AM EDT
"finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes. eh commrades?" "austin, we won." "oh right, yay capitalism! yeah."
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:38:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 8:54:18 AM EDT by JustL00king]
Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama: Why do I care about buying American? This is capitalism, and if our boys think they need fat profit margins, they can blow a cock, as far as I'm concerned. Wolf is far from crap, and I'll vote with my dollars 'til a better product comes along. Maybe it'll be American, maybe it'll be foreign. Go capitalism, go Wolf!
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Maybe you should take the first flight out of the usa if you don't like it here, like I said don't let me hear you say anything about the economy because your not helping at all. Anywhere you go it will just be worse than the usa.Wait until you find out how limited your choices are because you can't own an assault rifle almost anywhere else.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 10:01:37 AM EDT
I buy Wolf and I dare you to come tell me that I am not AMERICAN!!
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 10:16:55 AM EDT
During my last range session out of the 1000 rds I fired I had one small blown primer. No damage was done. I will continue to shoot Wolf. 999 rds fired flawlessly, so thats a .999% reliablity. Not bad! [:P]
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 11:04:35 AM EDT
THIS SURVEY APPLY ONLY TO WOLF AMMO OR OTHER RUSSIAN .223 AMMO AS WELL? I HAVE NOT SHOT WOLF, BUT HAVE SHOT CLOSE TO 750 ROUNDS OF THE 55GRN, 62GRN AMMO IN RED WHITE BLUE BOX JSC BARNAUL WITH NO PROBLEMS IN MY BUSHMASTER. THE ONLY THING I DIDNT LIKE WAS THE SMELL AND RIFLE WAS DIRTIER THEN NORMAL.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 11:27:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 11:30:28 AM EDT by Not_A_Llama]
Why do I feed the trolls and hijack threads.. Anyhow, who said I don't like America? I don't like being a crutch to inefficient, non-competitive companies. I don't subscribe to the marketing lie that self-patronage is patriotism. If you want to encourage and support the development of a welfare economy, you do that. You vote with your dollars, and I'll vote with mine. The reason Wolf is still here is because they have a good product at a good price. This is capitalism, and if you have a problem with it, let's talk about how we do things in the USA, komrad...
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 12:12:05 PM EDT
I went to the range with some guys who burned a bunch of it. Seemed to work OK for them. I have a Bushy 20" flattop with heavy barrel, and I shoot it off of a bench. For that reason, I use Winchester stuff in mine. When I get an M4gery, I could see the value of Wolf, or Barnaul, for offhand/rapid fire stuff. Since I'm shooting for accuracy at this point, though, I don't use it.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 1:47:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JustL00king:
Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz: Yep, all the Wolf buyers in the U.S. are to blame for the economy. All that money they spend at U.S. gun shows, shops, online sales, etc. is terrible for our economy. The Russians economy is so much better than ours because they sell ammo cheaper than the U.S. can manufacture. [rolleyes]
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First of all if you buy wolf ammo most of the money is going directly to russia to buy more cheap crap ammo. Other words, directly out of the country. If you buy american made ammunition sure it will cost a little more, but that's because it's better quality, more accurate, BRASS cased, and the bullets actualy fragment. Almost if not all of your money stays here in the good ol USA, your buying an american product making jobs for AMERICANS! Taxes on the ammunition go to the government paying for all the things we americans enjoy from our government. If you buy american products your money stays here and helps the economy, you buy an imported product your money is going over sea. Wolf ammo is cheaper because it's steel cased crap period, not because they can manufacture it cheaper.
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Wolf buyers money is going directly to Russia eh? That's the stupidest thing I have heard. How about the shop I buy it from? How about the importer who he buys it from? They're not making any money off my purchase? When you start paying my bills you can start telling me where to spend my money. Otherwise, I'm going to continue buying the most bang for my buck (pun intended).
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 1:47:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JustL00king: First of all if you buy wolf ammo most of the money is going directly to russia to buy more cheap crap ammo. Other words, directly out of the country. If you buy american made ammunition sure it will cost a little more, but that's because it's better quality, more accurate, BRASS cased, and the bullets actualy fragment. Almost if not all of your money stays here in the good ol USA, your buying an american product making jobs for AMERICANS! Taxes on the ammunition go to the government paying for all the things we americans enjoy from our government. If you buy american products your money stays here and helps the economy, you buy an imported product your money is going over sea. Wolf ammo is cheaper because it's steel cased crap period, not because they can manufacture it cheaper.
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So are you saying that if the SA surplus becomes available you will not buy that either? Also buy your argument it would seem that you never buy anything made in another country. So when you want to buy something do you make sure you shop around for a comprable american made product even though it may cost more?
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 9:48:35 PM EDT
Anyone ever notice the similarity between the Wolf good/bad argument and religious zealots? "That ammo is bad, you are going to HELL for using it!" "It is the greatest ammunition ever for the price, you are going to HELL for not believing in it!" Inflamatory statements such as those above will most likely NOT change someones opinion on the issue- if anything you are just going to piss folks off. Why does everyone always get whipped into such a fervor over this? We are all AR shooters, can we not agree some folks have had bad experiences and others think the stuff is great? It is his (or her) damn rifle- let 'em do what they want with it! Dawg
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:09:33 PM EDT
I just shot 200 rounds of wolf through my ar this weekend and didn't have any problems with jamming or stoppages. I agree it is dirtier than other ammo.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 2:14:08 PM EDT
Hijacking of threads, who would have thought that would happen. This thread is NOT about economics or patriotism. Let us keep our comments relevant to failures or lack of failures in Wolf branded ammo.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 5:26:34 PM EDT
Just wanted to say I fired 100rds of Wolf 55grn through my friends Bushy M4 and no problems. Still got another 400 for my new RRA M4 when I get everything. For $50 it seems like a good deal to me.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 11:38:36 AM EDT
To respond to some of the above, Yes I go out of my way to buy an american product for now at least when this country needs it the most. Even if it will cost more. Yes the distributors make some money off the wolf ammo they sell, but it's a very small percentage. Most of the money is going to russia to buy more wolf ammo to meet demand. If you buy american ammo most of the money stays here. The biggest question is, would you rather save what $50 per 1,000 rounds and have wolf ammo that punches pin holes because it dosen't fragment, its steel cased so it puts more wear and tear on your gun, and its so inaccurate you may as well throw rocks at them. Or spend the extra $50 and get american m193.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 2:44:36 PM EDT
Forgot to add more fouling from wolf = more jams.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:31:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2003 6:34:08 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Let me start by saying that most American made .223 or 5.56 is more like $70-$100 more a case than Wolf. So yes for general purpose shooting I am quite willing to buy Wolf. I use the money saved to buy better grade ammo for storage purposes. Not to burst your bubble but I haven't seen anything confirming the rumors that Wolf increases wear on a rifle. If anything the lower power of Wolf probably causes less wear on the rifle then true M193 spec ammo in the long run. Yes Wolf is dirty but it doesn't always mean increased malfunction rate. I recently went through about 1000 rounds of Wolf in just about 2 months. I also shot around 400 rounds of other ammo through the same rifle during this period without cleaning it. I had zero malfunctions, and this was non-chrome lined barrel either. I have also found the Wolf to shoot just about the same as other brands of surplus ammo I have tested. Yes it isn't match grade ammo, but it does shoot well enough for certain purposes. I won't bet my life on it, but the cans or cardboard can't tell the difference. In the end, I will use what works and is the most inexpensive. If it happens that a company from another country is selling it, well it is good competition for local companies IMO. If you choose not to use it, that's fine. But trying to make your argument against this ammo by waving the American flag isn't very convincing. Edited to add: How many American ammo companies offer the same satisfaction garuntee that Wolf does?
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 12:22:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 12:31:54 PM EDT by jollyrancher]
Yeah, I heard this same "help the American economy" argument back in the '70s when the jap cars became so popular. Lets face it, competition from the japanese did more to improve the American auto industry than any other single thing in the last 50 years. It wont surprise me if this kind of competition does the same thing in the ammo industry. I guess we'll see. jolly Oh yeah, I've put over 1000rnds through my Mak 90 with 0 malfunctions. Of corse as we all know, those Maks aren't very picky about what they eat. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:41:10 PM EDT
Zero problems...!
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 7:55:15 PM EDT
After rethinking that I may have mispoken. Somewhere between 850 and 900 rounds and ZERO malfuntions.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:59:49 AM EDT
I figure I might as well post my experience with Wolf. I bought a case of it. So far, I have fired approximately 860 rounds with zero ammo related failures.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 5:54:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Collin: I figure I might as well post my experience with Wolf. I bought a case of it. So far, I have fired approximately 860 rounds with zero ammo related failures.
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[peep]Shhh... you don't want people to think you are saving money while you shoot. [peep] [:D]
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 11:02:42 AM EDT
VA, I think you are right, I shouldn't tell anybody about how much I like this stuff.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 2:56:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JustL00king: and its so inaccurate you may as well throw rocks at them.
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Ok YOU head out say 100 or 200 yards and i'll ATTEMPT to drop ya using cheap steel cased Wolf ammo... Bet yout not down for that are ya... I shoot everything through my rifle and don't have a problem with shooting Wolf ammo. I use good ammo when it needs to be used and cheap ammo when it needs to be used. I really like to use Wolf when plinking or introducing newbies to the sport (once they start they can't stop!!!). This is like the Conventional vs. Synthetic oil debate. No way to change the others mind so why try…
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:45:18 PM EDT
About 3,000 rounds through my 3 AR's. No problems to report. I don't even notice the smell..... Brad
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:54:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: Ok YOU head out say 100 or 200 yards and i'll ATTEMPT to drop ya using cheap steel cased Wolf ammo... Bet yout not down for that are ya...
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As long as I get to return fire with xm193, I bet I win at 200 yards.
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