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Posted: 5/22/2003 7:00:50 AM EDT
Im looking for cheap plinking ammo that could used in case of emergencies and be real effective. It has to be reliable. I have ordered some fedaral 55 grain. and it seems to function just fine but i was maby looking for somting a bit cheaper in price. any solutions?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:34:01 AM EDT
Well, if the South African Battle Packs ever become available again, it can't be beat.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:06:48 PM EDT
FYI, I just saw SA battlepacks for sale at Cole Distributing. Don't know if they're in stock. They're kinda hidden; go to 'New Production Ammo', then page 9, then 'Next'. Price is $150 for 990 rds. Regards, Randy
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:58:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 2:02:43 PM EDT by Torf]
Sounds like you want Q3131A... It is real M193, and a box won't set you back much more than $3. Edited to add this link: [url]http://www.wholesalehunter.com/privatespecials/bargdes/winchester_usa_5.htm[/url] $3.29 a box isn't too bad.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:22:52 PM EDT
For cheap plinking ammo - I don't think you can beat Wolf. I know some folks here don't like it, but both my AR's eat it like candy and it has been extremely reliable for me--never had a failure to feed/extract that was ammo related in approx 8k rounds. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I will take those odds any day of the week. At least give it a try in your rifle(s) to see for yourself. You can usually find a case of 1k for about $95 or so. Just my $.02 worth.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 11:43:49 AM EDT
WOLF 55FMJ is the cheapest! I never had any problems. but others love to Bash it?? WINCHESTER Q3131A XM193 Or Cheap surplus!
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 4:53:33 AM EDT
Wolf 55-gr is the cheapest stuff around at only $95/case from Sportsman's Guide. Inherent problems with this ammo are that it's dirty, a bit underpowered, has a steel case, the lacquered case can jam up some critical parts in your AR15 and the bullets are poor for self-defense, in that they don't frag well. Of course targets and cans don't care about any of these factors. When and if the South African M1A3 surplus ammo ever hits the market again, this is unquestionably the best deal in town at roughly $36 per 300-rd battle packs. This ammo is true 5.56 mil-spec stuff that solves all of the problems stated above. Tight Groups, phoenix27
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 5:11:01 AM EDT
thanks for all the feedback guy's. I found some of that South African ammo form the above stated distributer and the price looks pretty good. as for the winchester ammo....it sucks. it wouldnt even cycle a mini-14 i had, and my ar-15 "coughs and gags" when i use it. The wolf ammo is good stuff provided the laquer doesnt melt and jam the weapon. i did use the wolf to break in the barrel of the weapon but i was cleaning the weapon after every shot for the first 25 shots and then after every 10 shots for a 100 shots. The wolf did just fine, however i wont trust it to a day of shooting. by no means an i "bad mouthing" wolf ammo. its fine for many rifles just not recomended for ar-15 rifles according to the manufacturer DPMS.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 6:38:04 AM EDT
Might want to try PMP ammo. It's South African commercial ammo and both Century and AIM sell it for $72 for 500.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 2:25:31 PM EDT
The PMP is nice clean, reliable ammunition. It is a little (very little) downloaded from the 193 spec; and is about the best of the cut-price ammo I have seen. Very consistent, in my experience. Really nice stuff; and AIM is a really great place to buy. The Silver Bear hollow-point should turn out to be a great ammunition for the price; but it's still a little early to be sure. Get some of this when you buy from AIM and see if yours likes it. Larry
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:02:52 AM EDT
Torf i did some check on that winchester u recomended and apparentky its not the same stuff they were puttin out a couple years ago. the "a" denotes the ammo is different am i right in thinking this or not?
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:25:35 AM EDT
Try the silver bear stuff. It is almost as cheap as Wolf and doesn't have the laquer coating.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 4:40:30 PM EDT
I have opted for Wolf for plinking. I tested 200 rounds with no problems, then did a run of 500 of the 62 gr with no problems and did 500 of the 55 gr stuff today with no problems. Lacquer does not appear to be an issue during slow fire or rapid, cool gun or hot. At approx. $70 savings per 1000 rounds over other types (like Federal red box), I will have saved enough for a new AR in 12-15K. I have noticed no unusual buildups of crud. Wolf isn't clean ammo, but after 500 rounds, I haven't seen a type yet that didn't leave my gun really dirty. I am not convinced Wolf is exacting on their powder. Muzzle flash seems to vary a goodly amount between shots. As the velocity is supposed to be on the low end, a little extra powder probably isn't making much difference. Do what I did. Buy a couple hundred or more rounds and test it yourself in YOUR gun. If it works for you, great! You now have cheap plinking ammo. FYI, with 1200 rounds and no problems, Wolf has proven itself more reliable than S&B and Fed. red box in my gun.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 6:26:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Ready_223: Torf i did some check on that winchester u recomended and apparentky its not the same stuff they were puttin out a couple years ago. the "a" denotes the ammo is different am i right in thinking this or not?
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Q3131A is Israeli manufactured ammo for Winchester. It's pretty good stuff. That's all I use since the SA has dried up.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 5:17:08 PM EDT
i had pretty crappy experiance with silver bear 55 grn hp. we'd get a stuck case every 60 or so rounds in my dad's HBAR. same gun eats anything brass like a champ. on the other hand i fired a bunch of barnaul .223 in my 20 inch chrome 1-12 gun and it ran great.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 7:12:24 PM EDT
The Russian stuff is great for cheap plinking but I would be leary about using it in a weapon for self defense.In the AR, the laquer builds up in the chamber very slowly and could eventually cause a stuck case or failure to eject.The chances are very slim but in a self-defense stuation, that could mean a life or death situation.I know most of you don't use your AR for self-defense so it makes no difference but for those that do, you probably already know better.On the other hand, I have used Barnaul in a plinker upper with great results, never a jam.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:08:00 PM EDT
I like the Federal American Eagle. Stuff's not very expensive and runs good. I never touch the Wolf, not for AR's anyway. My favorite is LC 193, when I can get a deal on it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:51:11 AM EDT
Sportsmans Guide has Barnul back in stock at $88.00/1000 with club discount less any coupons.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:48:16 AM EDT
I must have mistunderstood the question. I thought you wanted cheap plinking ammo that could be used in case of emergencies and be effective. I thought 'emergencies' meant "If I had to use my rifle to defend my life". In that case PMC, Wolf, Barnule, Silver Bear should just be tossed out the window. They are fine plinking ammo but I wouldn't trust them to fragment - might as well use a.22LR for defense. I'd say your #1 choices would be South African surplus or Winchester Q3131A. Both are M193 spec, and have a good chance to fragment if you meet the conditions... SA is a bit cheaper, Q3131A is new production/higher quality IMHO. If your rifle doesn't eat Winchester Q3131A like candy then you have a rifle problem - get it checked out. This is good ammo many of us (myself included) have shot 1000's of rounds without problems. Its as close to military M193 as your are likely to find.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:34:22 PM EDT
Just went to the sportsman's guide website and cound not find any Barnaul. Does anyone know what brand of ammo they have in the purple boxes? Also they have the SA battlepacks in stock, $310/2700, only available in the 2700 round case. Sarge
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:48:39 PM EDT
Actually, their website say not available until September, 2003, if you try to order the SA battlepacks of 2700.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:25:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 6:48:32 AM EDT by Ohio]
I thought 'emergencies' meant "If I had to use my rifle to defend my life". In that case PMC, Wolf, Barnule, Silver Bear should just be tossed out the window. They are fine plinking ammo but I wouldn't trust them to fragment - might as well use a.22LR for defense.
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This is considering only the FMJ, of course. For some reason, the AR shooters tend to focus on military equivalent ammo and not consider the HP ammo at all. You really ought to get some really, really good ammo for no-crap self-defense use. Noslers, Sierra GameKings, something like that. Depending on your twist rate the 68-69 grain OTM (MatchKing or Hornady eq.)is supposed to be really effective. The Wolf HP ammo should be good for this; I wish we could get the AmmoLab back up to do a run of this ammo. A 60 HP (Speer) or heavy SP would be grand, as well. Larry [edited to add] If you really think you may ever need to shoot something to make it die, get some premium ammo. Go to http://www.georgiaprecision.com/cart/items/BH223RemNew.htm and buy a couple boxes of the 68 grain Match ammo; practice and get your sight settings (clicks at 50, 150, 200, 250). Make a paper of the settings and tape onto a magazine or two; load them with the ammo, keep it handy. You should do the same with the 60 g SP, too. Then, you will be set with your normal ammo, and have corrected sight setting for the "special" ammo.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:10:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ohio: The Wolf HP ammo should be good for this; I wish we could get the AmmoLab back up to do a run of this ammo.
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I disagree completely! All results I've heard from the Russian hollowpoints & softpoints (albveit in 7.62x39) is they act just like FMJ - why should I expect different from their underpowerd .223? As you pointed out for emergencies you should have the 'good stuff' - Black Hills 68gr, 75gr or 77gr. But if I were stuck with 'plinking only' type ammo I would purchase a M193 clone which has been tested by proffessionals - not hope a 'cheap import' will do the job.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:38:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Ohio: The Wolf HP ammo should be good for this; I wish we could get the AmmoLab back up to do a run of this ammo.
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I disagree completely! All results I've heard from the Russian hollowpoints & softpoints (albveit in 7.62x39) is they act just like FMJ - why should I expect different from their underpowerd .223? As you pointed out for emergencies you should have the 'good stuff' - Black Hills 68gr, 75gr or 77gr. But if I were stuck with 'plinking only' type ammo I would purchase a M193 clone which has been tested by proffessionals - not hope a 'cheap import' will do the job.
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Well, in the case of 7.62x39 I agree completely; I won't buy anymore of the stuff. I would rather use FMJ, at least that way I know what it will do. The HP crap you can't tell whether it will break up, turn left and exit, or stay together completely and overpenetrate. The 7.62x39 HP is a [b]military[/b] designed bullet; it was not designed as a real hunting round, but to mimic their 5.45x39 bullet. It was a failure, but it allowed importation under the restrictive "sporting ammo" rule of the day. The .223, .308, and .30-6 ammo that is made by this company was designed as hunting rounds; as was the Soft Point 7.62x39. They are supposed to be a LOT better. Also, note that I suggested primo ammo, then said that the Wolf MIGHT be good; it would be nice to get it tested so that we would know. I did NOT suggest buying any for defense ammo until it was tested, thou I could have been a lot more clear on that particular point. I agree with Forest, who really (I think) agrees with me. Get good ammo that you know is good, reliable, effective stuff; regardless of price, if you may have to use it to defend life and limb. It would be nice to have test results of other ammunition that might be effective, though. As far as "stuck with plinking ammo", I fail to see why anyone would be unable to afford a $12 box of 50, reman BH 68g BT-HP match to use in this case. Use 20-30 rounds to set your sights and the rest to load up for reserve. It's better than using junk ammo, that's for sure. Otherwise, use 193 spec ammo, non-foreign surplus.Get the Federal for real stuff. Larry
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:57:42 PM EDT
"As far as "stuck with plinking ammo", I fail to see why anyone would be unable to afford a $12 box of 50, reman BH 68g BT-HP match to use in this case. Use 20-30 rounds to set your sights and the rest to load up for reserve." Where do you find BH reman 68 BTHP for $12 a box of 50???
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:51:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sksarfal: "As far as "stuck with plinking ammo", I fail to see why anyone would be unable to afford a $12 box of 50, reman BH 68g BT-HP match to use in this case. Use 20-30 rounds to set your sights and the rest to load up for reserve." Where do you find BH reman 68 BTHP for $12 a box of 50???
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Good question: I'm a dope and mis-typed $18. I often mistype numbers; sorry. Georgiaprecision or fulton armory would be my sources. Of course, I reload, so I CAN get it for 12/50! Sorry, and thanks for the catch; Larry
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 8:55:54 AM EDT
Np
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