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Posted: 12/7/2002 2:45:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2002 2:54:31 PM EDT by bvmjethead]
I'm looking to gather opinions on the most versitile and effective SHTF ammo.

I look at it like this, IF the SHTF, I'll need to shoot enemy personnel, in various conditions, at various ranges.

FMJ does not seem ike a good choice because of the lack of fragmentation. I do not want to abide by the Geneva convention during SHTF I want to KILL the enemy with as few shots as possible.

Agree with me so far?

Ballistic tip fragments TO much on personnel. Possible on causing only surface wounds.

So I'm thinking hollow points or soft points.

What are your preferences and thoughts?
OOPS My bad .223 ammo.
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 2:48:16 PM EDT
consult the oracle.
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 2:48:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2002 2:49:48 PM EDT by NAM]
Well... i think we need to clarify what caliber we are talking here. If you are talking 5.56mm NATO, M193 Ball does fragment quite well. It's like comparing apples and oranges. We need to clarify exactly what caliber SHTF ammo we are discussing. Ball will work with some calibers, not so well with others. Same goes for all ammo....good in some calibers, less effective in others. EDITED TO ADD [url]http://www.ammo-oracle.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 3:42:35 PM EDT
Wow, after reading through the oracle I seem to have HAD some serious misconseptions about FMJ ammo. I'll be reading this again and probably again.
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 5:33:40 PM EDT
For a 1x7 twist barrel your best choice is 75 grain open tip match. This includes the 75 grain Hornady TAP ammo and the Black Hills 75 grain ammo which is loaded with the same bullet for less money.
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 6:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2002 6:39:48 PM EDT by tatjana]
Originally Posted By DevL: For a 1x7 twist barrel your best choice is 75 grain open tip match. This includes the 75 grain Hornady TAP ammo and the Black Hills 75 grain ammo which is loaded with the same bullet for less money.
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I agree with DevL with the exception that TAP 75gr and BH 75gr require you to be somewhat cost insensitive to stockpile. I generally recommend M193 for bulk SHTF ammo. See the [url=www.ammo-oracle.com]Ammo FAQ[/url] for more specifics. [edited to add: If you have a 1:9 and experience problems with long distance stability in the 75gr TAP (some do, some don't try in your rifle) or are expecting cold weather- consider the 69 grain Sierra Match King rounds. BH has good ones. For 7.62 consider the AMAX 155gr if you are cost insensitive and good surplus 7.62 if you are]
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 6:51:01 PM EDT
you need exploding rounds for blowing the enemy to bits!
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 8:50:46 PM EDT
I use this technique in my revolvers,auto pistols, rifles and shotguns. It's what I call the "CROWD PLEASER". Several different known good bullets, staggered in the cylinder, or magazine. Hollow points, FMJ, soft points, AP Slugs, OO-Buck etc. That way, ya have something for everybody just keep pullin the trigger til they all go down....
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 10:11:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Blade409: I use this technique in my revolvers,auto pistols, rifles and shotguns.
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Not really a good idea. Each round will have different ballistics, recoil, etc. In the midst of the worst possible moment, you will have to adjust and compensate for these differences...and I guarantee you won't know what to expect next. If you really want a bunch of different types of ammo, designate magazine for each. Have a mag full of HP, a mag full of ball, etc. On the shotty, carry some buckshot in the tube, and put the specialty rounds (slugs, etc) on the sidesaddle. That way you can switch AS NEEDED, and you'll KNOW what to expect when you pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 12/8/2002 1:10:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Blade409: I use this technique in my revolvers,auto pistols, rifles and shotguns.
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Not really a good idea. Each round will have different ballistics, recoil, etc. In the midst of the worst possible moment, you will have to adjust and compensate for these differences...and I guarantee you won't know what to expect next. If you really want a bunch of different types of ammo, designate magazine for each. Have a mag full of HP, a mag full of ball, etc. On the shotty, carry some buckshot in the tube, and put the specialty rounds (slugs, etc) on the sidesaddle. That way you can switch AS NEEDED, and you'll KNOW what to expect when you pull the trigger.
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I agree with brou with the proviso that you BETTER do QUITE a lot of training under stress with these different ammo types if you expect to really have it together during a firefight enough to pull out the anti personnel ammo when it's needed. Also note this still violates the Keep It Simple Stupid rule (KISS).
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 6:47:59 AM EDT
Everyone is looking for Excalibur the magic sword. Just get yourself some true GI spec M193 and learn to hit what you aim at.
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 7:03:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DFBonnett: Everyone is looking for Excalibur the magic sword. Just get yourself some true GI spec M193 and learn to hit what you aim at.
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No, that's not it at all. I'm just a newbie and was looking at all the different ammo for AR's. It got a little confusing to me. I'm a hunter, I'm used to soft point boat tail ammo for medium/medium large game. When I read here, and heard here on numerous occasions that FMJ was the way to go, I almost cried. Just could not see how FMJ would be better on personnel than soft tip or hollow point. Now that I've read the ammo oracle, and another few threads and publications I see that I HAD misconceptions about ammo for personnel. I've never THOUGHT about what ammo would be best for shooting people before, at least from a rifle. [:D] We dont do much shooting at people around here.
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 9:26:32 AM EDT
Forget what kind of ammo, just get the Shrike upper. Nothing beats multiple hits and you can link the Shrike belt as long as you want.
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 12:37:19 PM EDT
Well, when you cannot practice multiple round shooting it's rather hard to learn how to be good at it. I USED to go to a range that had a 1 round per minute rule. NAZI's! Bunch of old benchrest guys trying to put 5 rounds in one hole. Boy did I ever cause a stir when I started going there. Well to each his own, and they were there first. The place I go to now says 1 round a second, but they're pretty lax even about that. When I was there Saturday I saw quite a few 30 round mags being emptied in way less than 30 seconds. To bad I only brought my .270 Remi. BDL 700. I'm beginning to think like this, hollow point, soft point, FMJ it's all good just put 3 rounds in every target no matter what you use, and that will probably give you the desired results. So I'm gonna really start practicing the 3 round burst shooting at various distances. By the way the ammo oracle has been tremendous reading, clicking on all the links, there is weeks worth or reading there. I want to see photos from that FBI shootout that is discussed there, anybody have a current link?
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