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Posted: 11/17/2002 1:10:21 AM EDT
If talk of the .45's power and big bullet interest you at all, then you will love the new test results of the Taurus Copper Hex bullets at the below site:

www.ammolab.com/taurus_copper.htm

This is what they'll do after passing through 4 layers of denim! I would call that pretty impressive expansion! I notice that on one of the shots the bullet failed to penetrate deep enough to meet FBI specs, but only by a fraction of an inch. The other shots all exceeded the 12" criteria. Looks like a promising new bullet design.
Link Posted: 11/17/2002 5:26:24 AM EDT
That is indeed some impressive, and very controlled, expansion.

I wonder if there are any plans for other calibers. I'd love to see some 10mm.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 7:09:37 AM EDT
Sweeeeeeeet.....


Scott

Link Posted: 11/18/2002 4:35:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 4:21:02 AM EDT
Good point on the barrel length. I sent an email several days ago asking about pics of the gel blocks ...this was the response.


Eventually we may but the main problem is two part: The gelatin does not photograph well, that is why special blocks are used in the M&S photos and not the actual test blocks. Second the amount of bandwidth that the site uses is high and the Cost is growing continually.

Think, Plan, Train, & Be Safe.


Link Posted: 11/19/2002 5:54:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2002 10:23:20 AM EDT by Scottman]
Edited my post to get rid of it. It was erroneous. It said the EFMJ by Federal was comparable, but it's not.

Scott
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 11:26:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2002 11:27:17 AM EDT by brouhaha]

Originally Posted By Scottman:
Ammoman has a similar product available in 9mm. Federal's "Expanding Full Metal Jacket." You can read about it here on Ammoman's site.



There is no similarity between the EFMJ and the Barnes copper bullet (which is what is used in the Taurus load).

One is a controlled expansion all copper bullet with a hollow point, the other is a scored jacket, which covers a rubber tip, which is over a lead core.

Read for yourself:
Barnes
Federal

Link Posted: 11/19/2002 12:21:59 PM EDT
Wow look at the cavity on those unfired bullets!

Its another flying ashcan, got a feeling a lot of older handguns are not going to like feeding that bullet.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 3:13:54 PM EDT
Troy, just a clarification, the tests of the Taurus bullets were with a 5" barreled TRP, not 4".

I read your reply stating that there were a lot of guns smaller than that and my first thought was that the statement was a little aggressive since 4" is already below the size of the standard Colt Commander. Then I checked test. If you change the number to 5", then you are absolutely correct. A lot of people carry .45s in barrels shorter than 5" and a lot of people really prefer the Commander length 1911s for concealed carry purposes.

So the question now is, how well will the Taurus rounds do in Commander and Officers' sized barrels?
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 3:44:45 PM EDT
I'm almost certain the expansion would be just as complete from the shorter barrels. And I would also agree that the penetration would be less due to the decreased velocity. But, with regard to the penetration depth, his test shots first go through 4 layers of denim. I'm not certain, but isn't the FBI criteria of 12 inches in "bare" gelatin? If so, I think they would still hit that 12" mark if you removed the demin.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 11:27:01 PM EDT
I'm not so sure that the slower velocities from a 4" barrel would mean less penetration. Instead, the bullet may expand slightly less from this barrel length leaving the same or even greater penetration than with 5" barrels.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 11:55:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2002 11:56:27 AM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 12:04:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Also note that solid copper bullets are ILLEGAL in some areas of the US. Something to consider.



Why?
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 1:59:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-Frank:
Originally Posted By Troy: Also note that solid copper bullets are ILLEGAL in some areas of the US. Something to consider.
View Quote
Why?
View Quote
And where? I know of no place that Barns X rifle bullets are illegal..
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 12:27:50 AM EDT
I'm a .45 lover, but my .357 mag handles smaller barrels much better then the .45. .45 is actually the worse when it comes to shorter barrel velocity then most calibers.
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 10:21:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: There is no similarity between the EFMJ and the Barnes copper bullet (which is what is used in the Taurus load).
View Quote
Ooops. You're right. I didn't look close enough. Mea Culpa. Scott
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 6:22:42 AM EDT
I'd still like to know why all copper bullets are illegal in certain areas. Anyone?
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 11:02:37 AM EDT
I don't know of any place that it's illegal, but [b]if[/b] it is I'd guess that they tried to ban armor-piercing ammo by not allowing anything w/o a lead core, or not made of x% lead.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 12:14:33 PM EDT
Troy - you mentioned that even with the large expanded diameters of these, you'd like to see the wound channel. On TacticalForums Terminal Effects board, David DeFabio discussed this on 10-18 in a thread about the PMC/Taurus test results. Apparently this copper bullet did not cut a wound channel commensurate with the large final expanded diameter. He explains his conclusions. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/28/2002 11:17:49 AM EDT
Any more on this all copper bullet being illegal business? Regards, Gary
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