Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 11/14/2002 4:49:59 PM EDT
I recently purchased a case of the Swiss GP90 from Ammoman.com, and have a question regarding its construction.

If I'm not mistaken, the production date on this ammo is 1994, product is the same as the image below (591-1050, PS524). In reading about the early versions of the Swiss ammo, they reportedly had a nickel jacket, which was changed in 1998 to copper.

Just to verify (partially curiosity, partially paranoia), I took a file to one of the bullets, and shaved off a VERY thin copper coating, to reveal a harder underlying layer that I'm pretty sure is NOT lead, since it was much harder, and didn't resemble any lead I've ever seen in .45 or 9mm loads for pistol.

My concern in shooting this ammo, is the same I had when using the Siver bear. Is this ammo just a very thin coating of copper over a bimetal bullet? If so, should I be concerned about barrel wear? I abandoned the Silver Bear 62gr HP Steel case, and spent $200 for the Swiss, hoping to get something that would be more 'barrel and chamber friendly'.

http://www.ammoman.com/images/223SWED8.jpg
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 6:39:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rovert:
I recently purchased a case of the Swiss GP90 from Ammoman.com, and have a question regarding its construction.

If I'm not mistaken, the production date on this ammo is 1994, product is the same as the image below (591-1050, PS524). In reading about the early versions of the Swiss ammo, they reportedly had a nickel jacket, which was changed in 1998 to copper.

Just to verify (partially curiosity, partially paranoia), I took a file to one of the bullets, and shaved off a VERY thin copper coating, to reveal a harder underlying layer that I'm pretty sure is NOT lead, since it was much harder, and didn't resemble any lead I've ever seen in .45 or 9mm loads for pistol.

My concern in shooting this ammo, is the same I had when using the Siver bear. Is this ammo just a very thin coating of copper over a bimetal bullet? If so, should I be concerned about barrel wear? I abandoned the Silver Bear 62gr HP Steel case, and spent $200 for the Swiss, hoping to get something that would be more 'barrel and chamber friendly'.

www.ammoman.com/images/223SWED8.jpg



Yep. They went through three stages of evolution- which I didn't know till recently.

1. Nickel.
2. Copper "washed."
3. Copper jacketed.

Yes, they will wear more. You shouldn't notice it unless you shoot a couple thousand rounds however. Maybe less if you have a 1:7.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 7:16:12 PM EDT
*sigh*

Alright, so I'm buggered. What level of concern should I have regarding barrel wear as it relates to longevity and reliability?

Rifle is a Bushmaster M4gery - chrome chamber and barrel, 1/9. I've gone through about 500 of the Swiss, and 400 of the Silver Bear. Am I hastening the demise of the rifle by shooting this stuff? If so, how much worse is it than more 'friendly' ammo, like SA?

(sorry for all the newbie questions)
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:12:14 PM EDT
If it was a target rig I might worry but a chrome lined 16" 1/9 barrel isn't that accurate to begin with. A couple cases aren't going to have much of an effect.
Even if you manage to wear out the barrel, you're not ruining the rifle, just the barrel.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 10:05:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 5:03:22 AM EDT

Shooting two cases of this ammo may take an extra 50-100 rounds of life out of the barrel. The barrel's life will probably exceed 30,000 rounds, perhaps as much as 50,000 rounds.


Thanks, guys. I know it's not a 'Cadillac' as AR's go, but she's my first, and I wanna keep her around for a while. You've put my mind at ease. Two cases that deducts 100 rounds off a 30K life expectancy equates to .003% diminshment. Uh... I think I can live with that. Not even on the radar. :)
Link Posted: 11/15/2002 5:45:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rovert:
*sigh*

Alright, so I'm buggered. What level of concern should I have regarding barrel wear as it relates to longevity and reliability?

Rifle is a Bushmaster M4gery - chrome chamber and barrel, 1/9. I've gone through about 500 of the Swiss, and 400 of the Silver Bear. Am I hastening the demise of the rifle by shooting this stuff? If so, how much worse is it than more 'friendly' ammo, like SA?

(sorry for all the newbie questions)



You going to do more damage from over-cleaning than from the GP90 I think.

Don't sweat it unless it's all you use and you put 10k rounds through the rifle.
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 5:22:26 AM EDT

You going to do more damage from over-cleaning than from the GP90 I think.


Tatjana, I know that using a bore cleaning solution that contains polishing compounds can hasten the demise of a barrel, but I use only Hoppes, CLP, and the Otis kit (patches and bore brush). Since there are no abrasives in there, I'm not clear on how cleaning would have an effect.
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 8:37:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rovert:
Tatjana, I know that using a bore cleaning solution that contains polishing compounds can hasten the demise of a barrel, but I use only Hoppes, CLP, and the Otis kit (patches and bore brush). Since there are no abrasives in there, I'm not clear on how cleaning would have an effect.



I believe she's talking about scrubbing your bore with a brush. Some people go way too far with with their cleaning, and scrub more than is needed. Every pass of the brush takes of microscopic amounts of bore material.
Link Posted: 11/16/2002 2:16:48 PM EDT

I believe she's talking about scrubbing your bore with a brush. Some people go way too far with with their cleaning, and scrub more than is needed. Every pass of the brush takes of microscopic amounts of bore material.

I understand, but even a number of passes with a bore brush can't hold a candle to the punishment that a single round imposes, no? IOW, if I had to guess, 100 passes with a brush can't come close to the punsihment a single round passing through the barrel at 300fps would make, right?
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 5:23:10 AM EDT
when i was in Bootcamp at Parris Island i had a rifle that looked like a battlefield pick-up. there was no finish left anywhere, the bolt catch had to be replaced because it wouldnt hold the bolt open and the take down pins were so loose they would have fallen out if it werent for the detent. they made us clean them 5 days a week, sometimes more. and when you clean a rifle in bootcamp you scrub something until they tell you to stop. we're talking 20+ trips of the brush up and down the bore. woe unto he who is not scrubbing with the rest of the platoon. once the bolt flew home during "inspection arms" (this is how the faulty catch was discovered) and during the Senior's caniption he snatch my rifle by the barrel and commenced to give it 6 or 7 hard whacks on the Parade Deck like he was choppin wood. big over hand swings! he handed the rifle back to me and in his terrifying low growl said "good luck qualifying with THAT shit brick"

well 3 weeks later i went 10 for 10 in the black at 500yds and shot a final qual of 236/250


a long story i know but a testament to the ARs durability and the inherent accuracy of the design. i would say if you got a chrome bore shoot the swiss since you already bought it. in the case of the russian stuff if you shoot enough of it a rebarrelling job would pay for itself with the moneyy you saved in ammo.
Top Top