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Posted: 10/21/2002 12:36:02 PM EDT
My dealer tried to order me some more TAP today and was told that it is now available only with LE Dept Letterhead. Anyone else hear this?
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 1:47:39 PM EDT
It's always been that way, IIRC. You must be a dealer that works with LE, or you must be a department to order. It doesn't mean the dealer can't sell to you, however.

It's just like what Remington has done with it's PSS line...

It's all about liability.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 1:59:33 PM EDT
He and another Dealer used to stock it regularly with no problem. Both are saying that it is only being sold diretly to departments now. I have bought plenty of it in the past. I know that its not illegal or anything. According to what my dealer was told when he called to order it, its no longer available without LE dept. Letterhead. I havent heard anything about Hornady restricting the sale or anything. I was going to do some more testing with some, but if it really is no longer available, I want to keep what I have for social use and will just start getting the 55gr Winchester Silvertips.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 2:39:11 PM EDT
Well, if you have a reloader, it isn't all that hard to roll your own.

All of the .223 TAP uses the VMAX bullet of the same weight, save for the 75gr which uses a BTHP bullet.

Anyway, I hadn't heard about Hornady resticting their sales this much. I wonder if it has something to do with the MD murderer? (I won't say "sniper", as I feel that term should be reserved for professionals who have earned the title)
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 4:37:47 AM EDT
Not sure. I am going to check a few other places and see if I can get more info. Not sure if this is related to the shootings or not, or ,again, if it is indeed correct.

THANK YOU! for not using the s word. Murderer is good. I have just been using "shooter" myself. This person(s) dont deserve the title Sniper to me.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:45:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2002 11:47:50 AM EDT by CHUCK6419]
Hornady still makes commercial loads for all varmit calibers using a v-max bullet.

my wet-magazine test did 5" of penetration
and rapid expansion/fragmentation

with the 40 grain v-max, the load they have going Around 3800fps. I believe they'd penetrate better in geletin.

other manufacturers,remington for example, use the v-max bullet in premium loads.
Just my opinion, but I'd think the 50-62 gr v-max would make great home-defensive round

-Chuck

Link Posted: 10/22/2002 11:56:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CHUCK6419:
Just my opinion, but I'd think the 50-62 gr v-max would make great home-defensive round

-Chuck




Not that again...
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 12:02:50 PM EDT
How about we get the opinion of a widely respected Wound Ballistics Resercher (who has worked with Fackler) and has been a point man on Entry teams..

Quote courtesy of Dr. Gary Roberts from his postings at the Tactical Forums:

In .223, the 75 gr TAP is one of the best performing bullets in this caliber, as demonstrated in the lab, as well as confirmed by multiple law enforcement and military shooting incidents. The .223 40 gr and 60 gr TAP bullets seem to offer inadequate penetration.
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 9:56:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2002 9:57:46 AM EDT by saleen]
Hornady used to sell TAP directly to officers with credentials on file with them. I bought a bunch of TAP from them and passed some on to my non-LEO friends who wanted some without paying gouged prices. About a year ago I called to get more and was told that not only did it have to be on dept. letterhead, but by dept. purchase order.

As far as LE dealers are concerned, I am also my department's FFL, but that didn't make any difference with Hornady.

Given the difficulty in obtaining this ammo, I'm starting to question our decision in using it exclusively. Too bad, because it is damn fine ammo IMHO.

Oh, and as far as inadequate penetration on the entry team, I've shot a IIIA vest through the metal trauma plate with 60 gr. TAP at an average CQB distance of about 12 yards. The round went through the trauma plate, front panels, and back panels. Yes, there was copper "splintering" on the front cover where the round hit the truama plate, but the energy was still enough to carry through and through.

I'm sure that a mostly water medium such as a body between thost panels would have impacted the performance, but the point is that it penetrated enough to go through the front of the vest.


Saleen
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 1:33:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
My dealer tried to order me some more TAP today and was told that it is now available only with LE Dept Letterhead. Anyone else hear this?



I haven't heard that. If you're in Broward area, IPS (in Hollywood) has some I believe.
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 1:41:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
My dealer tried to order me some more TAP today and was told that it is now available only with LE Dept Letterhead. Anyone else hear this?



www.ammoman.com has some
Link Posted: 10/23/2002 3:10:01 PM EDT

Oh, and as far as inadequate penetration...
Roberts was referring to adequate penetration (at least 12 inches) of the human body, not body armor or other materials.
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