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Posted: 9/21/2002 10:05:09 PM EDT
I saw something that if is true, looks very good as a potential self defense load. I saw someone on another board quote a 1998 test which showed the Fed 69 gr BTHP match load penetrating 14" in gel with about 60% fragmentation! If these are accurate numbers, seems this is the round to load the mags up with! But I am a bit skeptical until I hear someone else report similar findings.

Anyone familiar with this ammo and it's performance? If it's that good, it would also serve as a better load for those with 1x9 twist barreled rifles...that can't use the 77 gr SMK's accurately.
Link Posted: 9/22/2002 8:56:12 AM EDT
I can't speak to the fragmentation situation vis a vis this ammo, but can state unequivocally that it shoots sub MOA consistently from my 1/9 Armalite.
Can you post a link to that other board or that test?
Link Posted: 9/22/2002 10:30:36 AM EDT
DF,

Here's the link: http://forums.stoppingpower.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=668

If that is true (I have no idea what publication WBR is) then it appears that the Fed Match 69 gr is by far the best load among those listed, including the Black Hills 75 gr BTHP. I just wonder if this is the same load currently available as the 69 gr Sierra MatchKing BTHP? I also want to know if this test was done at 10-15 ft and how good it can perform at longer ranges. And for those who don't wanna look at the link, I will post a few of the test results they mentioned below:

Win 62 gr FMJ 14.7/.33 31% fragmentation
Fed 69 gr Match 14.7/.40 60% fragmentation
BH 75 gr Match 13.2/.47 44% fragmentation

Now if these are correct, it appears that this would be a good round for self defense applications. And Black Hills also loads ammo with these same bullets in the 50 rd boxes, so it could be obtained pretty cheaply from them. There has been lots of talk regarding the 75 and 77 gr as of late, but it appears this 69 gr load could be even better. But until I see more data I will not state that as fact. I like to see more than one source.

---Charging Handle
Link Posted: 9/22/2002 10:35:01 AM EDT
The Federal 69gr Match is what the FBI SWAT team uses for the "real deal " .

This is used in 16" carbines .

Hope this helps .
Link Posted: 9/22/2002 10:50:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2002 12:50:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
The Federal 69gr Match is what the FBI SWAT team uses for the "real deal " .

This is used in 16" carbines .

Hope this helps .



Yes! Very helpful! That sounds like a pretty good endorsement if the FBI SWAT guys are using it from carbine length barrels.

So I assume that this is the 69 gr Sierra Match King that Federal is using....as this is the only 69 gr bullet I know of that they load. I know that Black Hills also loads a 69 gr Sierra Match King HP that you can buy for $23.65 per 50 rd box at Georgia Precision. If the velocities are similar, then this round should be just as good and a heck of a lot cheaper. If I hear anything positive about this Black Hills load when compared to the Federal version, I will send out an order for a 500 rd case very soon.

And what's really good, is that folks with 1x9 twists barrels can use this too...unlike the heavier 75 and 77 gr loads. So in the future if I buy a Bushy or RRA to go along with my Colt, I can feed it the same ammo. So unless someone can prove to me that the 75 and 77 gr loads are somehow better performers, I am sold on the 69 gr Sierra Match King's. I think it's safe to say that all of the above offer better terminal performance than M193 or M855 and it isn't that expensive if you buy Black Hills.

BTW, for those interested, here's a good place to buy Black Hills and they ship for free and fast: ]www.georgiaprecision.com

They have 69, 75 and 77 gr loads available in 50 round boxes...in your choice of new or re-manufactured (which many claim is every bit as accurate and reliable as the new stuff).

---Charging Handle
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 8:52:53 AM EDT
Well, the work posted here got me interested in heavier bullets also. Thanks for the information you are passing along; but one thing that is worth considering is WHERE the fragmentation occurs.

In the 77gr. SMK gel shot from the Ammo FAQ, the 'neck' is about 4-5" long. On a frontal, unobstructed shot that means the round could enter and exit before fragmentation ever happened.

Likewise, if most of the fragmentation occurs before the round is deep enough to reach vital organs, you've just created a really nasty looking wound but one that may not stop the threat.

Ideally, you want the mythical dragon slaying capability shown in the gel shot of the 100gr. round - fragmentation all the way along the path of the bullet with good penetration. Then you only have to worry about hitting the dragon in the right spot without getting roasted...
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 1:14:10 PM EDT
Bartholomew,

I think you are right now that I have had time to look over some more stuff and hear from other folks. While the 69 gr Match King may fragment more than the 75 gr TAP, it appears the TAP starts much sooner. The neck on the SMK shots do appear very, very long. The neck on the 75 gr TAP, while not as short perhaps as the 100 gr, is still much shorter than the SMK's. So it looks like it will be 75 gr for me.....at least for now. I still think the 75 gr TAP outperforms M193 or M855 based on what I am seeing and hearing. At least as an antipersonnel round.
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