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Posted: 9/2/2002 12:14:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2002 8:27:31 PM EDT by M4C]

By bringing the sordid BOTACH subject to the forefront again, I figured I'd report on the ACTUAL LOCATION or "place of business".
I happened to be in the area where BOTACH has it's address, so I decided to stop by and get some "face time" with the freakshows. I just HAD to!

BOTACH is located in a very busy high-traffic commercial area of LA (rough town at sundown too).
They're in a run-down building with the only sign being a badly painted "PAWN SHOP" as their storefront. Windowfronts are "blacked out" just like the sleazy adult shops down the street.

I proceed to the front door and run into a little Mexican guy who gives ME an almost bewildered look and says, "What you lookin' for?"
I say, "Is this BOTACH???"
Guy replies, "Yes, are you Poh-lice?"
"Huh?"
"OK you go inside..."
(I just HAD to get a look inside this dump)

All I can see before getting to the girl at the desk in this semi dark room was shelves stacked ceiling high which were stocked with shoes. Nothing but shoes.

Since I'm fluent in Spanish, before my arrival at the end of this shoe tunnel I already overheard the girl ask the guy who let me in WHO I was and AM I a policeman (in Espanol).
So I then told the girl right off the bat that NO, I'm not a police officer, I'm just looking to buy some ammo.
"OH no", she says, "jou have to fill it out 'teh form' and bringet it tu me". "And jou havet tu bee poh-lice".
"Okay then, so how do I order?"
[blank stare from the girl]
"---so you mean I have to order ONLINE?"
"Yes.", she utters.
"Ohhh--okay, goodbye."
I leave---and as I leave, I can hear nervous whispers going on b/t her and another girl. I am not bullshitting nor exaggerating here.

So why this "police-only" service and why all the mystery and shady business appearance?
I think the answer is quite obvious.

**Another thing: for as big a business Botach's website leads one to believe--and that Botach wheels-and-deals with LEO agencies galore, I saw NO LEOs or any customers whatsoever while I was there. It was on a Tuesday, business hours. LEOs wouldn't deal with such a dumpy place and in this part of town.
It just doesn't add up.
I don't believe Botach is a police supplier. You figure it out from there as to why the claims.
Is Botach a simple crummy mail order outfit which uses the internet and Law Enforcement fronts for garnering prestige? Botach refuses to serve customers at its business location so as not have to deal with customers FACE-TO-FACE.

I had a very similar experience with a certain company which only sold mail-order, but it's warehouse happened to be very near where I lived--and that company's name is/was USA MAGAZINES.
After many months and headaches in trying to get delivery of my magazines, I paid them a very unexpected visit and waited at their offices until they finally decided to help me for good. It was obvious they didn't want to see me there and from then on I learned some new ropes about the business world and its ugly side.

Back to Botach, I'm so dismayed that these clowns appear to be the only 'official' distributors of I.M.I. ammo in the country now. What were the IMI guys in Israel thinking? Must be a family connections thing going on.


So there you have it...
AND YET THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO WILL KEEP ORDERING FROM BOTACH!!

Whoever said "there's a sucker born every minute" wasn't kidding---and Botach is laughing all the way to the bank with these words!

Link Posted: 9/2/2002 12:44:01 AM EDT
Hmm.. just EarthViewer-ing now.. is it this place?

Link Posted: 9/2/2002 3:30:23 AM EDT
Ive been to Botachs warhouse a couple times. It's not a store, its a warehouse, which is why it is in a commercial/industrial zone and looks more like a pawn shop than Nordstrum.

Only Active military and Police are allowed to browse the warehouse. Why? They dont have the time or staff to assist customers who want to come to the warehouse, but they make an exception for active Military and Police.

There were no spanish speakers there when I went. Lots of middle easterners, no hispanics. Not a surprise since its owned and operated by a bunch of middle easterners. Complaining about the ethnicity of Botach employies is like going on a tour of French wineries and complaining about all the french employees.

What did you expect?
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:40:07 AM EDT

AND YET THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO WILL KEEP ORDERING FROM BOTACH!!

Whoever said "there's a sucker born every minute" wasn't kidding---and Botach is laughing all the way to the bank with these words!




Call me a sucker but I'm the one doing the laughing.

I have made a number of orders from Botach over the past few years and have always been pleased.

My last order was for three of the new style Blackhawk Discreet Weapons cases at $68.00 (+ an additional %5 rewards program cash back.)each. A significant discount over the $119.95 factory price.

Confirmation email within the hour and product in my hand in 8 days.

I could use a couple more of these, can any ar15.com dealer out there match Botach's price?? Let me know.

-XM
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:48:35 AM EDT
kc0hak, yeah that's the place, the one on the left end of that little strip mall. I've been inside Botach numerous times and I'm not a LEO.

They prefer you order online but I've had to make a few exchanges at the store... umm... warehouse, and the only problem I had was having to wait while somebody corrected my order. I might also add that the errors were not their fault... Hatch gloves undersized, ARMS mount out of specs, etc.

And I've seen plenty of cops inside the store... umm... warehouse, in and out of uniform, and police cars parked out front. Those are my observations, perhaps a little different from M4C's one time visit.

As far as the Botach/IMI connection, it should be obvious. Doesn't Botach's logo look vaguely similar to the IDF's?

Yeah, they don't have a store per se, or sales clerks or cash registers, and they're in a dumpy part of town, but I guess that's how they can offer low prices. There are plenty of other choices so if you don't like them, don't order from them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:09:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 8:16:50 PM EDT by M4C]
WoW! Those satellites sure are something. It's the long white slender building at six o'clock position directly south of the large parking lot.
I can even see the space b/t the buildings where I walked through from the parking lot to the street.

I won't question what others saw there or their great dealings with Botach. I'm probably wrong on the LEO issue.
All I know is my sour mail order experience with Botach and what I saw at their 'warehouse'. Of course there are still many other dissatisfied customers, too many I've heard of to count.

After all this, all I can say is there's only one word to describe Botach: Enigma.

With that, I'll lay it to rest.

Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:54:57 AM EDT
That's not too far from the Sports Arena. I wouldn't be hanging out in that area after dark, that's for sure.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 10:01:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4C:
one word to describe Botach: Enigma.



No, the word is evil, pure evil. Play with the devil and you get burned. Maybe not yet, but you will. It is a fact of life. You've been warned!
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 10:41:31 AM EDT
I purchased four cases of 127gr +P+ 9mm Winchester Ranger SXT from them about 20 months ago at $ 15.99 per-box of 50 when they where twice that much or more everywhere else. Received on time and as advertised.

THISISME
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:02:21 PM EDT
Guess I'm just foolish then. Me and alot of guys in my dept. order from botach and all we get is....Alot of good stuff at prices that are at least 5-10% lower than anywhere else. I've rarely found anyplace that sells for less than them. I don't know why only doing internet business is such a bad thing. Keeps down business expense which in turn translates to better customer pricing. My .02
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 8:40:20 PM EDT
Keep ordering, you'll find out sooner or later what everyone is talking about.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 11:53:11 AM EDT
Thanks M4C for enlighting us on Botach. Yes, that's exactly my thought. I got burned once by them, and once is enough.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 12:22:14 PM EDT
once again I fail to see how you got burned. Is it because you wanted to see the forbidden fruit and couldn't? SO what. They routinely go out of stock on stuff because they have such a high turnover of products. I do order from them regularly and always call and tell them to just go ahead and hold the order till everything is in stock. Never takes too long. The prices are just about unbeatable so what is the big deal if I have to wait an extra week? Does anyone here ever order from Rangerjoes.com? Ask anyone who's ever been stationed at Ft. Benning or Ft. Stewart. They are dumpy little stores (that have really cleaned up in the last 5-10 years) that have great products at good prices. They always put out a top notch catalog that would lead you to believe they have a fabulous showroom floor. Yeah right. Don't really care if Botach is in a dumpy little warehouse or not....good prices keeps me happy.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 12:51:14 PM EDT
When I bought my AK shorty I placed an order at botach for some IMI ammo. I received an email confirming my order so I thought everything was fine, credit card was charged and then I waited and waited and waited and waited but no ammo. I then called them back after 2 weeks to find out where my order was. They told me it was being processed. I wait 2 more weeks and call again. It turned out they didn't have my drivers license so they never shipped the ammo that I had ordered and paid for with my credit card. What pissed me off was that they charged my credit card, told me my order was being processed and then found out they didn't have my drivers license but never called me to have me fax it to them they just took the money and said nothing. Thats shit customer service, anyway after that I got a refund and ordered from chestnut ridge the guy at chestnut ridge had the ammo to me in a few days and it was also Q3131a. I think the ammo cost a little more but they had the ammo I wanted and damn good service. The guy at chestnut ridge also took time to answer ammo questions I had being a noob to the types of ammo the black rifles eat. I'l definately buy from chestnut ridge again.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 1:17:57 PM EDT
Well I'm on the fence on this one.

I've order about a dozen times from Botach and here is my observation:

Some orders go perfect, piece-o-cake no problem. Others had trouble. It seems that if what you order is a relatively popular and common item then its no problem. If they have it in stock and the item is not size dependent (like gloves or BDU's etc) then no problem.

Botach does have a habit of advertising more items than they actually carry, or advertise items that are out of stock. If that is the case then you are likely to have problems with your order. If you order an out of stock item expect that you will not receive notification for several weeks from their "customer service" reps... if you can call them that.

My two horrible expericence were this:

1) I ordered two Motorola TalkAbout Distance DPS radios from Botach at the sale price of $159.00. I had been thinking about getting a couple but the usual $220.00 price tag kept me away. The sale price was too good to pass up so I bit. I ordered the Pewter colored ones. Three weeks later after not receiving my order I got a phone call from a CS Rep that was very difficult to understand. He informed me that they were out of stock and only had Yellow ones did I want those instead? I asked how long until he would get the Pewter back in and he said he didn't know. I agreed to Yellow but complained about the fact that it took 3 weeks to inform me of this problem.

2) I ordered a set of Peltor Tactical-6 hearing protectors. They shipped the box next day like I asked but then they put a "Adult Signature Required in Person" sticker on it. (why?) So I had to arrange to drive 35 miles to the UPS Distribution Center to sign and pick up because I was always at work when the UPS driver delivered. UPS refused to change the address to my work address (not Botach's fault) and I was leaving for a shooting event and needed them right away. But still... WHY WAS THAT STUPID STICKER PLACED ON THE PACKAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE? I had UPS leave a 2700rd case of clearly marked ORM-D ammo on my doorstep with no signature but they wouldn't leave me a set of hearing protectors?
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 11:26:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 11:37:53 PM EDT by M4C]
To "AR_Rifle": Thank You.

To "leo6223": Might I refer you to what "new-arguy" has said (several times)?
For all your gallant defense of Botach, I will remind you that this isn't about Botach's 'dumpy warehouse', but about their hideously inconsiderate and shameless customer dis-service. We will be here to hear of YOUR headache too when your time is up, so don't forget to report on it if you dare sir.
Forbidden fruit??!! C'mon.
----------------

News Today

Well it looks like 'someone' from Botach has indeed been perusing the AR15.com boards. That COULD be a good thing, provided they abstain from cheap shots such as this one I received from [none other than!] botach@botach.net today at 10:52AM:


Shame On You!!!!!!


---------------------------------------------------------
Email Generated From: AR15.Com


(If this is what is known as responding to customer feedback, well....I guess that's a start!)

This Botach bogeyman might even be an AR15.com member since the email was generated from this site.
So why not just CHIME IN Mr. Botach and answer some of the concerns outlined here??
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:23:33 PM EDT
I went to their place a while ago for a B&T mount for an HK94. I just drove by and walked in the door. I called beforehand and told them that I will be picking it up instead of having them mail it.

Sales guy I talked with was nice and showed me the place. I guess I caught them at a slow time since they took the time to bring me several units of the thing I ordered and I got to choose which one I wanted.

Thay rang up the sale while I waited and I was on my way. Their wherehouse looks more like an old bank. Just because of the large round bank volt (typical of what you see in bank movies) I saw in the back.

BTW: I am not LEO.

Just my experience with the company. That was the only time I have ordered from them so I can't comment on their accuracy with internet orders.
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 9:01:26 PM EDT
botachtactical.com/info.html

I see lots of latin names on there but
no middle eastern.
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 11:12:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2002 11:15:17 PM EDT by Raptor22]
Here are some of the great deals I got from Botach Tactical:

Aimpoint M2 - $299
EOTech 552 - $329
Peltor Tactical 7 - $119

They have consistently had the best prices around. It is always best to call and ask if the item you want is in stock.

BTW, IIRC the owner is Israeli and that would explain the IMI connection.
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 11:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Raptor22:
Here are some of the great deals I got from Botach Tactical:

Aimpoint M2 - $299
EOTech 552 - $329
Peltor Tactical 7 - $119

They have consistently had the best prices around. It is always best to call and ask if the item you want is in stock.

BTW, IIRC the owner is Israeli and that would explain the IMI connection.



How'd you get $118 on PEltor Tac 7 - website says $160 and the CompM2 says $338?

I need both but not at listed prices.
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:21:04 AM EDT
KEA

Botach runs some pretty good sales; including sales on IMI ammo. I only buy from them when stuff is on sale. You can get on their email list.

The last time I put in an order, I got an email about a week later (or was it two weeks?) that the items were no longer in stock. You just never know with Botach. If you are easily excitable, don't mess with them.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 7:33:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2002 10:05:10 PM EDT by Graffiti]
Well I currently have an order with them.
A week has past since placing the order.
I've contacted their customer service via
email but no reply as of today. Come to think of it, I've placed so many orders with them
but only thing they ever had in stock and shipped out was pair of Shoes....
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 8:13:01 PM EDT
LOL

(my condolences sir)

Chalk another one up fellas

It goes on and on and on....
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 10:45:21 PM EDT
Botach is evil, you've been warned!
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:37:18 PM EDT
Ok, I have heard stories of bad customer service with this company, but has anyone never gotten what they ordered from them?
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 5:43:43 AM EDT
Nope! Not me. I ordered a CQB sling, I couldn't resist the price. I ORDERED one with ERB, the quick release buckle. Paid an extra 5.00 for it. Do you think I got what I ordered? NO! Standard sling without the release. And, the receipt in the box specified the quick release model. So, I called and they are supposed to credit my account. And, the chick on the line is giggling about it. I'll see.

Fu^!@#g morons!

Never, and I mean NEVER, use Boshit.

I know, I should have listened...
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 7:30:44 AM EDT
Sure, they can get orders right. In fact, I'm sure a lot of orders go out as they should. Point is, deal with them long enough, and you woo will be burned. And when that happens, their attitude and service will frustrate you to no end. Evil... pure evil. You've been warned.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 8:32:25 AM EDT
This thread should be locked or moved until Botach has a chance to respond with their side of the story.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 12:03:25 PM EDT
uh, it's happened more than once.

F!@K'um
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 12:23:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
This thread should be locked or moved until Botach has a chance to respond with their side of the story.



Just my $.02, but hasn't this thread been open for some time to contributions from everyone including reps of Botach? If the company felt it important enough to be familiar with forums where its products and services were discussed, wouldn't they monitor posts to AR15.com just as several major industry reps do? I cannot speak for others, but I regularly consult these forums and filter through the consumer information/feedback in order to reach more informed purchasing decisions, one way or another. In my opinion, a free market rates a free forum and locking such threads would be counterproductive. Again, just my $.02 to be tossed into the pot with everyone else's.

O'DubhGhaill
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 2:28:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 2:48:06 PM EDT by M4C]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
This thread should be locked or moved until Botach has a chance to respond with their side of the story.



To directly address this point,
I will RE-post this msg from the previous page:
(didn't anybody notice ???)
--------------------------
News Today

Well it looks like 'someone' from Botach has indeed been perusing the AR15.com boards. That COULD be a good thing, provided they abstain from cheap shots such as this one I received from [none other than!] botach@botach.net today at 10:52AM:


Shame On You!!!!!!


---------------------------------------------------------
Email Generated From: AR15.Com

(If this is their idea of responding to customer feedback, well....I guess that's a start!)

This Botach bogeyman might even be an AR15.com member since the email was generated from this site.
So why not just CHIME IN Mr. Botach and answer some of the concerns outlined here??
----------------------


What does this tell you?

Appears Mr. Botax or an agent/rep DOES lurk here but prefer to remain in the shadows while taking pot shots at their unhappy customers.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 2:44:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By O_DubhGhaill:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
This thread should be locked or moved until Botach has a chance to respond with their side of the story.



Just my $.02, but hasn't this thread been open for some time to contributions from everyone including reps of Botach? If the company felt it important enough to be familiar with forums where its products and services were discussed, wouldn't they monitor posts to AR15.com just as several major industry reps do? I cannot speak for others, but I regularly consult these forums and filter through the consumer information/feedback in order to reach more informed purchasing decisions, one way or another. In my opinion, a free market rates a free forum and locking such threads would be counterproductive. Again, just my $.02 to be tossed into the pot with everyone else's.

O'DubhGhaill



Very well spoken, thank you.

OTOH, if the moderator decides he's seen enough and locks it, that's fine by me.
It is the prerogative of the owners of this website and I respect that.

PERHAPS, better yet this thread could be sticky'ed to one of the General Discussion Forums????
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:19:12 PM EDT
AR15fan,
I can't figure you out. Cav Arms bends over backwards to help you and you still whine. Botach has screwed everyone I know who has dealt with them, including myself, and you defend them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:58:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 2:31:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
AR15fan,
I can't figure you out. Cav Arms bends over backwards to help you and you still whine.



What does Cav Arms have to do with this thread....?
Link Posted: 10/18/2002 11:57:57 PM EDT
I bought from them 2 years ago. The experience was bad. Ordered 2 holsters and 1 flash light/mag pouch combo. The flash light/mag combo was for the wrong pistol model. Sent it back and never recived credit or replacment.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 9:53:42 AM EDT
I still have open order with Botach.
Made second attempt in contacting them.
I'm a civilian so I had to go through
their website. No response!
Talk about customer service. Besides,
what I ordered were not even hard to
find products. They weren't even
sales items.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 10:35:34 AM EDT
I just saw this post... right befoer I posted the following in the general discussion area. I ordered a few things and had good service and then I had the following experience. I am not ordering from them again.

So I ordered an M6 surefire from BOTACH while they were on sale last January I think. It never came. I enquired they said they were out of stock but would contact me when they came in. I honestly forgot about it until I got an e-mail saying they were now available at the same price. I immediately e-mailed back and said yes. They e-mailed me and said they were shipping that day. It never came. I forgot about it. Called back recently. They said that they never received a response and that now they could not offer the same price. Did I want one at the new price. At first I said yes. Then I decided "not from them".

Maybe I should have checked sooner. But come on that is all outrageous. Lousy service with airs of bait and switch in my opinion. I bought one elsewhere and had it the next day.

Don't use Botach. I know we have all heard it before. And occassionally I have gotten things as promised. Not any more though.
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