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Posted: 8/28/2002 1:18:44 PM EDT

Well I ordered my ammo over 1 month ago ( IMI .223 ). I have talked to them 3 times now. Today I got a E mail saying "we need your drivers license". Well I send them that 1 month ago. Everyone I talk to tell me something different. I am about to call my Credit card and have them put back the credit on the card....I was charged July 26 and already paid for it.

Jason
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 1:34:19 PM EDT
I once requested a govt. employee price quote for a Trijicon sight on-line from Botach. It took well over two weeks to receive a response. In the meantime, I tried telephoning them. After several tries, I eventually was put on an interminable hold by a live(?) person, only to have the line picked up with no one actually answering while I listened to giggling women in the background. I hung up, never to attempt communication with them again. Fortunately, after having read all the negative commentary here regarding this company, I never made the mistake of actually ordering anything from them. How on earth does a company like this stay in business!?!?

O'DubhGhaill
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 2:05:28 PM EDT
They definately gave me the "bum's rush" on the phone several years ago before I had internet service. And they got the order wrong. Last time I tried calling in an order, they didn't even want to take your order by phone unless it was a large LEO order.

Hope you get everything straightened out....eventually.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 2:43:19 PM EDT
I have only placed 3 orders with them. All three were delivered on time and correct.

They do have some hoops to jump through for ammo purchases. But the ordering instructions are clear.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 3:25:24 PM EDT
I've delt with them one time.

I ordered a holster from them.

4 weeks go by, no phone message or email.

So I call them up.

"I'm calling about my order"

"Whats your order number?"

"Umm, that's the problem, I haven't received ANYTHING regaurding this order"

So after talking for a few minutes they say that the item is out of stock.

"didn't you recieve an email?"

I laugh and say, "What do you think?"

So I cancelled my order under my agreement I have with myself: If your order isn't right your first attempt, move along.

I've received 2 calls from them even after all this was taken care of.

That place is messed.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 5:30:47 PM EDT
These stories continue to piss me off!!
I wish IMI would distribute thru someone else!
I want to order a bunch of M855, but Botach Slackticle is the only place........
This SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 6:26:27 PM EDT
I won't order from Botach because of all the problems I've read, and I'm looking for a couple thousand rounds of M855 myself. I'd rather pay a few $ more to make sure it arrives in a reasonable amount of time rather than wondering if the order got screwed up, or it's on backorder.

Too bad someone reputable, like Eric the Ammoman, handled IMI.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 8:27:56 PM EDT
Please, do yourself a favor, before you order anything from Botach, do a search on them here, and about any other gun board. Im not saying dont buy from them, I am merely saying do a search and make an informed decision on buying from them or not. To those of you who have made 3 or 5 or 10 or 15 orders from them without a problem, you have been fortunate so far. I used to be one of the lucky ones too. The fact is if you keep ordering from them, they will screw you. Period. No if's, and's or but's about it. It will happen. And there are no tricks to ordering, like calling first to make sure they have it. Because they will tell you they have something they dont. Its happened to many of us. Some people think not calling is the trick. Haha! Order something they dont have on line and they will charge your credit card and wait until who knows when to send it. They will never call you to tell you it isnt in stock. They'll just wait however long it takes to get more stock in. That could be months. Look, Botach is evil. You've been warned...
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 1:32:27 PM EDT

Just got another E mail from our friends at Botach. Saying send in your Drivers license. Damnit I faxed that yesterday and another time over 3 weeks ago.

All I wanted was some IMI ammo.

Does anyone know if someone will have any IMI .223 at the Crossroad gun show... Phoenix AZ sept 7-8?

Jason
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 1:39:14 PM EDT
I hate to say this...But as a Charter Member of the clan.

Try Hebrew.
Shi*t they GALL ME too.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 2:46:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jason22:

Well I ordered my ammo over 1 month ago ( IMI .223 ). I have talked to them 3 times now. Today I got a E mail saying "we need your drivers license". Well I send them that 1 month ago. Everyone I talk to tell me something different. I am about to call my Credit card and have them put back the credit on the card....I was charged July 26 and already paid for it.

Jason



Double check you credit card statment. Check to see if they have actually charged your card (applied as amount due to your statment) or if they have just gotten an "authorization" (reserved the funds on your credit line).

If they have actually charged your card then you should contact Visa/Mastercard regarding their business practices. I think you will find that they are violating their merchant agreement.

They are only allowed to charge the credit card if they are ready to ship the item within 24-48 hours. When you order from any larger (and reputable) merchant you'll see that if an item is backordered you don't get charged for that item.... they charge you for it when it comes back in stock and they are ready to ship.

I'm about 50/50 with my orders from them. If they have it in stock in their warehouse and it is something not size/fit related then no problem.... usually. If the item is out of stock or backordered then you will A) Never receive the item, B) Never hear from them, C) Never get an answer from them.

They sat on an order of mine for over three weeks before calling and informing me that the item I ordered was out of stock and would not be in stock... they asked if I wanted to substitute the items for the same item in a different color. I said yes and it still took two weeks to ship the order.

THEY ARE A NIGHTMARE WHEN IT COMES TO CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:03:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 4:12:55 PM EDT by Raptor22]
I was lucky on the first six orders from them. Order number seven was a gem! I ordered 2 Peltor Tactical 7's from them at $119 each which was an excellent price. They were shipped the next day. I tracked the package and UPS took 11 days to get it from CA to NY. So when UPS delivered I looked at the box and it looked like I only received one since the box was only big enough to hold one. I opened it and looked at the invoice and sure enough I was billed for two and only sent one. The invoice had a big red "1" with a check mark and initials. So, I sent an email along with pictures of the item, the packing and the invoice to show they only sent one. The next day I receive an email apologizing for the inconveniece and that they did ship two since each order is double checked by two people before it is shipped. They told me that UPS would be by to pick up the package since they would be filing a loss claim with UPS. I tried to explain to them that there was no way that this could have happened. The box arrived intact and it was only big enough to hold one. They did ship the second one the following day. UPS came to pick up the package and I told the UPS guy the story and he told me that it would be going back to them after their investigation. After an angry email to them, I get a call from Maria and I explained the entire story to her. She apologized for the inconvenience and said that they would reship the package once they get it back. Six days after they had received it, I got it back in the same box that they had originally shipped it in. If they had the sense to look closely the pictures I sent them, they could have avoided the cost of sending it twice at their expense. Luckily I was in no hurry to get these. Their customer service leaves much to be desired but Maria seems to be one of the few people there on the ball. Whenever there has been a problem with an order, she has been the one that always call me the next day since I usually do my orders online.



Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:29:27 PM EDT
I was checking their website earlier today and IMI ammo is no longer listed. I even did a search and all that showed up was an IMI 7.62 Cleaning kit that was on sale.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:35:27 PM EDT
For the life of me, I can not figure out why anyone on this board would order from this company. This company seems to treat their customers like shit and there seems to be few exceptions to this rule. If you order from them, you deserve to get hosed. This is especially true when there are many reputable vendors who charge fair prices and deliver the good they sell. SWFA and Ammoman are two vendors I've found since I came here and I'm 100% satisfyed with EVERY product I have ever ordered from them. There was one exception with so0me Olympic ammo from Ammoman, which Eric was happy to exchange when I called him. And to be honest, I think the amm may not have been my problem (FTF with a Bushy 10 rd. mag).
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:09:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 7:12:40 PM EDT
Double check you credit card statment. Check to see if they have actually charged your card (applied as amount due to your statment) or if they have just gotten an "authorization" (reserved the funds on your credit line).

If they have actually charged your card then you should contact Visa/Mastercard regarding their business practices. I think you will find that they are violating their merchant agreement.

They are only allowed to charge the credit card if they are ready to ship the item within 24-48 hours. When you order from any larger (and reputable) merchant you'll see that if an item is backordered you don't get charged for that item.... they charge you for it when it comes back in stock and they are ready to ship.

Yes my card was charged july 26..and I paid for it about 2 weeks ago.


After getting the e mail saying send your Drivers L again. I wrote them back saying send the ammo or put the credit back on my card. If you cant I will call my CC and have them put the Credit back on.

Got another E mail later today..saying " sir, Please diregard this message. Your order has been shipped out already."

We will see


Sorry ammoman but you dont have IMI or I would have got it from you.

Jason
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 7:47:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ammoman:
That's it Sleepy, now i want my money back
To be honest, you are not the only one to have a problem with the Olympic ammo.
Some guns love it and others it short strokes.
We are not going to buy anymore and we do guarantee the ammo we sell.
Thanks for your business.
Eric the ammoman



Eric, any way that YOU can get IMI???????
Think of it as a "humanitarian" act!

Link Posted: 8/30/2002 10:39:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 10:40:03 AM EDT by kpblade]
I live in So. Cal so I figured I'll give them a call and see if they have IMI in stock. They did, or at least thats what they told me. However, they don't have a storefront per se, only a warehouse, and would not allow me to come and pick it up myself. So if I want any IMI I would have to pay tax and shipping, I live only 30" from them. Go figure.
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 11:56:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 12:08:52 AM EDT by M4C]

Originally Posted By kpblade:
I live in So. Cal so I figured I'll give them a call and see if they have IMI in stock. They did, or at least thats what they told me. However, they don't have a storefront per se, only a warehouse, and would not allow me to come and pick it up myself. So if I want any IMI I would have to pay tax and shipping, I live only 30" from them. Go figure.



***PLEASE R E A D !!!***
Yep, by bringing this sordid BOTACH thread to the forefront again, I figured I'd report on the ACTUAL LOCATION or "place of business".
I happened to be in the area where BOTACH has it's address, so I decided to stop by and get some "face time" with the freakshows. I just HAD to!

BOTACH is located in a very busy high-traffic commercial area of LA (rough town at sundown too).
They're in a run-down building with the only sign being a badly painted "PAWN SHOP" as their storefront. Windowfronts are "blacked out" just like the sleazy adult shops down the street.

I proceed to the front door and run into a little Mexican guy who gives ME an almost bewildered look and says, "What you lookin' for?"
I say, "Is this BOTACH???"
Guy replies, "Yes, are you Poh-lice?"
"Huh?"
"OK you go inside..."
(I just HAD to get a look inside this dump)

All I can see before getting to the girl at the desk in this semi dark room was shelves stacked ceiling high which were stocked with shoes. Nothing but shoes.

Since I'm fluent in Spanish, before my arrival at the end of this shoe tunnel I already overheard the girl ask the guy who let me in WHO I was and AM I a policeman (in Espanol).
So I then told the girl right off the bat that NO, I'm not a police officer, I'm just looking to buy some ammo.
"OH no", she says, "jou have to fill it out 'teh form' and bringet it tu me". "And jou havet tu bee poh-lice".
"Okay then, so how do I order?"
[blank stare from the girl]
"---so you mean I have to order ONLINE?"
"Yes.", she utters.
"Ohhh--okay, goodbye."
I leave---and as I leave, I can hear nervous whispers going on b/t her and another girl. I am not bullshitting nor exaggerating here.

So why this "police-only" service and why all the mystery and shady business appearance?
I think the answer is quite obvious.

**Another thing: for as big a business Botach's website leads one to believe--and that Botach wheels-and-deals with LEO agencies galore, I saw NO LEOs or any customers whatsoever while I was there. It was on a Tuesday, business hours. LEOs wouldn't deal with such a dumpy place and in this part of town.
It just doesn't add up.
I don't believe Botach is a police supplier. You figure it out from there as to why the claims.
HINT: Botach is a simple crummy mail order outfit which uses the internet and Law Enforcement fronts for garnering prestige. Botach refuses to serve customers at its business location so as not have to deal with customers FACE-TO-FACE.

I had a very similar experience with a certain company which only sold mail-order, but it's warehouse happened to be very near where I lived--and that company's name is USA MAGAZINES.
After many months and headaches in trying to get delivery of my magazines, I paid them a very unexpected visit and waited until they finally decided to help me for good. It was obvious they didn't want to see me there and from then on I learned some new ropes about the business world and its ugly side.

Back to Botach, I'm so dismayed that these clowns appear to be the only 'official' distributors of I.M.I. ammo in the country now. What were these guys in Israel thinking? Must be a family connections thing going on.


So there you have it...
AND YET THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO WILL KEEP ORDERING FROM BOTACH!!

Whoever said "there's a sucker born every minute" wasn't kidding---and Botach is laughing all the way to the bank!
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 3:47:57 PM EDT
Botach is evil, pure evil I say. You've been warned.

Link Posted: 9/2/2002 4:02:30 PM EDT
I'm surprised to hear how many people have been screwed by this outfit. I ordered a LEO Colt AR15A3 for work at a great price and got it in 5 days, no problems.

Don't know if I deal with them again after hearing all the negative feedback though.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:55:27 PM EDT
Hey everyone I got my order!!!! Its here after 5 weeks! Oh and they got it right!!

No more with botach but I will post some chrono data when I get time to shoot it.

Jason
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 3:04:12 PM EDT
Botach acts police-friendly but the service isn't any better than it sounds like for everyone else.
I am a police officer and ordered a CamelBak and some MagPuls that took over two months to arrive. I had a Luminox watch on order for over two months before canceling the order. I ordered some Glock LE mags that arrived used with someone else's badge numbers or something engraved on the floorplates. I sent them back and after some slightly heated discussion, they agreed to exchange them. That was over a month ago and they still can't give me an expected delivery date for them.
It's too bad, they have great prices but can't back it up with even decent customer service.
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