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Posted: 8/22/2002 11:32:33 AM EDT
I have about 100 rounds of win. Q3131A but I also have a box of Q3131 what the difference between the two?
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 12:55:13 AM EDT
The Winchester Q3131 that seemed to cause all of the problems was late 90's production (specifically those with 99 headstamps). Some of these rounds were loaded very hot and did suffer from problems such as blown primers. Maybe this was a result of the Y2K buying frenzy? LOL.

Never saw or heard of this problem with Q3131A though. And the difference is that the Q3131 was made here in the US and the Q3131A was made in Israel under contract to Winchester. This is the ammo I choose.
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 1:00:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
The Winchester Q3131 that seemed to cause all of the problems was late 90's production (specifically those with 99 headstamps). Some of these rounds were loaded very hot and did suffer from problems such as blown primers. Maybe this was a result of the Y2K buying frenzy? LOL.

Never saw or heard of this problem with Q3131A though. And the difference is that the Q3131 was made here in the US and the Q3131A was made in Israel under contract to Winchester. This is the ammo I choose.



From the Maryland AR15 Shooter's site:

Q: Is Winchester White box 5.56 (.223) any good? I've heard there are problems with it.

A: Courtesy of Forest Platt & 'Walt R. Mitty'

Generally Winchester 5.56 ammunition is very good. First off boxes marked with a product number of Q3131A is made by IMI in Israel to U.S. M193 spec - this is VERY good stuff and I've not heard of any problems with it. The boxes with product number Q3131 are made in America and conform to the U.S. Military's M193 specification (55gr load). However there have been problems with some lots (soft brass has been reported resulting in extraction problems and buildup of brass flakes under the extractor); also the powder is burning at a faster rate than is typical and can cause problems if you gas port is not drilled to spec. These potentially 'bad' lots have been identified as: PD50, PD90, PF40, PC22, PG62, PF52, PF11, PL31, & PN02. These lots only relate to the U.S. produced Q3131. Others have reported inconsistancy and overpressure problems (blowing primers) with some of these lots. (Note: I've proven overpressure issues with the PN02 see the 31JUL02 test results in the Documents:Test Results section)




HTH
-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 4:05:45 AM EDT
Tatjana-What you fail to understand is although most of answers are in the FAQ, they don't WANT to read it all. It's easier to type the question and wait for someone to bring the answer to them. I'm afraid you're going to soon be beating your head against the wall (if you're not already).
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 4:43:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2002 4:45:02 AM EDT by tatjana]

Originally Posted By kkyle:
Tatjana-What you fail to understand is although most of answers are in the FAQ, they don't WANT to read it all. It's easier to type the question and wait for someone to bring the answer to them. I'm afraid you're going to soon be beating your head against the wall (if you're not already).



That's our job.

I don't mind pointing people to the FAQ, particularly newcomers. That's why we are here.

Someone once held all our hands and taught us where to dig out "the good stuff" on our art of choice.

Besides, it's not their fault. They are probably used to the other inferior sources of information and urban myth out there and therefore hesitant to peruse the FAQ as they believe it a waste of time.

"We'll learn 'em."

It must be working. The FAQ gets about 150 hits a day now.
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 5:36:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2002 5:38:11 AM EDT by kkyle]
Patience-One of the big differences between men and women.
Link Posted: 8/24/2002 6:06:26 AM EDT
Big_Bear, Charging_Handle, Tatjana,

Thanks for the info. Just looking for some of your wisdom. The AR is an expensive hobby, and having a wife and kids don't leave me much AR time or money. I am looking for a little hand holding. Have to justify the money and time with the War Dept.

I can't yet make the big ammo mail order purchase. So I want to make sure I spend my money wisely. If my wife see a UPS truck drop off a big box of ammo she will be the one shooting it, at me!

Tatjana, the Ammo FAQ is one of the most informative AR document I have found on the internet. Thanks.

kkyle, yes I have read it ALL. (Well maybe not the foot notes :) There is a lot of information to remember everything. But I promise to study harder.

Thanks again all...
Link Posted: 8/25/2002 6:09:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2002 6:09:41 PM EDT by tatjana]

Originally Posted By jschacker:

Tatjana, the Ammo FAQ is one of the most informative AR document I have found on the internet. Thanks.



Don't forget Troy and the other contributors!
Link Posted: 8/25/2002 6:20:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2002 7:44:36 PM EDT by Bushmaster-M4gery]
From the Maryland AR15 Shooter's site:

Q: Is Winchester White box 5.56 (.223) any good? I've heard there are problems with it.

A: Courtesy of Forest Platt & 'Walt R. Mitty'

Generally Winchester 5.56 ammunition is very good. First off boxes marked with a product number of Q3131A is made by IMI in Israel to U.S. M193 spec - this is VERY good stuff and I've not heard of any problems with it. The boxes with product number Q3131 are made in America and conform to the U.S. Military's M193 specification (55gr load). However there have been problems with some lots (soft brass has been reported resulting in extraction problems and buildup of brass flakes under the extractor); also the powder is burning at a faster rate than is typical and can cause problems if you gas port is not drilled to spec. These potentially 'bad' lots have been identified as: PD50, PD90, PF40, PC22, PG62, PF52, PF11, PL31, & PN02. These lots only relate to the U.S. produced Q3131. Others have reported inconsistancy and overpressure problems (blowing primers) with some of these lots. (Note: I've proven overpressure issues with the PN02 see the 31JUL02 test results in the Documents:Test Results section)




I have some Q3131 boxes that appear not to have any lot # indicated on the individual boxes. Where can I find this information? The case box that the boxes came in is hand stamped PF61. I'm assuming this is the Lot # for all the individual 20 rd boxes, but it seems unusual not to individually mark the boxes. Anyone had problems with this lot?

Thanks.

Scot
Link Posted: 8/26/2002 2:53:13 PM EDT
Tatjana and Troy, great work on this FAQ.I tried to access it last week, but couldn't.I plan on printing this off, because I'm afraid that I'd go blind reading it from a computer screen. Is that O.K.? This thing is cool!
Link Posted: 8/26/2002 4:34:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushmaster-M4gery:
From the Maryland AR15 Shooter's site:

Q: Is Winchester White box 5.56 (.223) any good? I've heard there are problems with it.

A: Courtesy of Forest Platt & 'Walt R. Mitty'

Generally Winchester 5.56 ammunition is very good. First off boxes marked with a product number of Q3131A is made by IMI in Israel to U.S. M193 spec - this is VERY good stuff and I've not heard of any problems with it. The boxes with product number Q3131 are made in America and conform to the U.S. Military's M193 specification (55gr load). However there have been problems with some lots (soft brass has been reported resulting in extraction problems and buildup of brass flakes under the extractor); also the powder is burning at a faster rate than is typical and can cause problems if you gas port is not drilled to spec. These potentially 'bad' lots have been identified as: PD50, PD90, PF40, PC22, PG62, PF52, PF11, PL31, & PN02. These lots only relate to the U.S. produced Q3131. Others have reported inconsistancy and overpressure problems (blowing primers) with some of these lots. (Note: I've proven overpressure issues with the PN02 see the 31JUL02 test results in the Documents:Test Results section)




I have some Q3131 boxes that appear not to have any lot # indicated on the individual boxes. Where can I find this information? The case box that the boxes came in is hand stamped PF61. I'm assuming this is the Lot # for all the individual 20 rd boxes, but it seems unusual not to individually mark the boxes. Anyone had problems with this lot?

Thanks.

Scot



Anyone?

Link Posted: 8/26/2002 5:24:03 PM EDT
Yes, PF61 is the lot number.

No, PF61 has not been identified as one of the potentially bad lots.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 9:39:02 AM EDT
erm thanx I think. Heres an idea why don't we just shut down all discussion on this forum and have just the ammo faq posted at the top.

Look people im in no way a "newbie" N00b or however you prefer to spell it im not "new" to this place and definatly not new to the AR15 weapons system. Ok so I didn't look in the ammo faq. I guess that gets annoying after awile with people not using your faq. for that I am sorry. BUT you need to tune down your sarcastic responses. Just because someone asks a question that seems a little dumb to you or doesn't use your faq doesn't make them a goddamn child for christs sake.

Were all adults here. Lets try to act our age.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 11:00:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushmaster-M4gery:
I have some Q3131 boxes that appear not to have any lot # indicated on the individual boxes. Where can I find this information? ...


Inside, on the cardboard divider part of the box.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 1:30:42 PM EDT
I had the misfortune of purchasing a bad case of 1999 manufacture Q3131.. it was nothing but problems, blown primers, fte's... it was a nightmare. Next time the Winchester boys came around, I tastefully let them know my displeasure with their product.. They gave me this phone number.. 1-800-356-AMMO, which is a number at Winchester. After negotiating the numeric options, I was connected with a super nice woman who took down my lot number, told me she was sorry and asked for my address. She advised that they would have ups pick up the remaining defective ammo (like 1/2 a case) and would ship me a replacement case. I was kinda skeptical at first but low and behold, about 2 weeks later, appeared a fresh case of Q3131A manufactured 06/2002 along with a letter saying "they trust I will find the replacement entirely satisfactory"

Needless to say.... I am ;) It breathes fire out of my colt m4 hehehehe..

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