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Posted: 2/22/2006 4:20:04 PM EDT
Is anyone running an MGI or Enidine in their 9mm? I know 9mm already has virtually no recoil, but I was wondering if a hydraulic buffer would reduce it even further. The other issue I'm wondering is it heavy enough to safely run in a 9mm?


Bomber
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 4:39:41 PM EDT
The 9mm actually has more internal abuse than the 223.....it is critically more important to run a heavier buffer.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 4:56:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 4:58:18 PM EDT by amphibian]
I was running an MGI w/ the weak spring that comes with the AAC buffer. I was having problems with the bolt not going back far enough for bolt catch to be engaged on the last round. It was short stroking.
I'm also running a ~5" barrel with a suppressor.
I figured I wasn't getting enough back pressure and the MGI was too heavy for it to move the bolt back far enough. I was suffering from stovepipes.
I switched to my Hydraulic Enidine buffer w/ the same weak AAC spring and it is running perfectly now. Suppressed and un-suppressed.
However, for all other calibers, I prefer the MGI buffer.
Note that I'm also using the Wolff Extra Power Hammer spring for my 7.62 uppers since I run into hard primers in 7.62. I think I could possibly use the MGI buffer in my 9mm setup if I used a standard hammer spring but I don't want to change out my hammer spring when I switch centerfire calibers.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:02:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By amphibian:
I was running an MGI w/ the weak spring that comes with the AAC buffer. I was having problems with the bolt not going back far enough for bolt catch to be engaged on the last round. It was short stroking.
I'm also running a ~5" barrel with a suppressor.
I figured I wasn't getting enough back pressure and the MGI was too heavy for it to move the bolt back far enough. I was suffering from stovepipes.
I switched to my Hydraulic Enidine buffer w/ the same weak AAC spring and it is running perfectly now. Suppressed and un-suppressed.
However, for all other calibers, I prefer the MGI buffer.




Your set up is similar to mine. I have a 5" barrel with a suppressor. My main concern is wether the Enidine is heavy enough to provide enough delay to ensure the pressure is safe during extraction.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:09:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 5:10:28 PM EDT by Noxspector]
My current setup is an Oly 16" running with a friend's MGI and stock car spring. I am running it in an ACE FX stock right now.

The 9mm does have a more violent recoil than that of a locked bolt 5.56mm. I started off running it with a stock carbine spring and buffer, just to try out. The recoil was fairly harsh for a 9mm, I thought. The bolt would start back early enough that I'd get a bit of gas and buring powder from the chamber.

Just before New Years, I borrowed a friend's spare MGI buffer. Well it's still in the gun. The recoil is next to nil and no gas in the face. I am running a Hann block with Sten mags. I have only fired standar 115 grain ammon out of it so far. I have not had any "fail to ejects". I probably have to give the buffer back at somepoint and will probably try a RRA 9mm buffer before I shell out for the Endine, but it does run nice. Very smooth and low recoil.

I am working towards getting a Oly/Glock lower and SBRing it with a can of my own creation. (Someday).

Nox
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:13:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 1:13:41 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]
colt le6450
16" bbl.
mgi rrb


nearly eliminated "felt recoil" and keeps the rifle on target for multiple follow up shots and rapid fire have about 5k through mine without a single failure and zero lock back problems.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:57:48 AM EDT
Well, I don't know where you got the 9mm has "Virtually no recoil", it's a blowback system and needs the heavy buffer.... but I am running the MGI RRB in my 9mm AR carbine with collapsable stock.

Shoots wonderfully, I chose the MGI cause I use the same lower with .223/5.56, and plan on getting a .45ACP upper as well. Making a "multi" caliber kit for fun. In fact, it's using a MEGA lower marked "MULTI" caliber. This with a Oly 9mm upper.

No Expert
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:20:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
Well, I don't know where you got the 9mm has "Virtually no recoil", it's a blowback system and needs the heavy buffer....

No Expert




No offense "No Expert" but I am a very experienced shooter and I find the 9mm recoil to be minimal. That's my opinion and as such does not merit sarcasm. If you find it to have heavy recoil that would be your opinion and I would not respond to that with sarcasm.

Right now my intergrally suppressed 9mm has just a little bounce off target to it. I was wondering if folks have used a hydraulic buffer successfully. IOW, does it cycle and does the brass exhibit any signs of pressure.

If you're havinbg trouble with recoil as is, I suggest you take a look at your stance. Square up, cup shoulders and lean in a bit while staying balanced.

YMMV.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:31:15 AM EDT
I too am a very experienced shooter and can tell you that the 9mm Colt setup has got to be one of the "bounciest" shooting 9mm SMG's out there in the STOCK configuration.
Try shooting it side by side an MP5, UZI or Sterling and see for yourself. It is no comparison. Those SMG's all shoot a LOT smoother than a stock Colt 9mm setup.
Now the nice thing about the Colt is that you can tweak it to run smooth.
But for semi only, the 9mm Colt isn't bad.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:55:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 10:03:24 AM EDT by thebomber]
I would agree that an MP5 is smoother in part due to the roller lock system allowing a lighter weight bolt/buffer. I'm not familiar with a Sten (haven't shot one) and the only UZI's I shot were FA 45's. I just got back from the range with my 9mm and the Enidine doesn't make a big enough improvement for me to us it in the 9mm. I'll keep it in my AR SBR.

I guess my comment wasn't clear or is being taken out of context. Relative to the other rifles/carbines/subguns I shoot regularly, my 9m SBR is extremely mild and very easy to hold on target. As I said earlier, there is a slight bouce that is very consistent so it's easy to bring it back to target allowing for accurate paced fire. Compared to my UMP 45, it has no bounce. Compared to my ARs or Krink SBR it has no bounce. I never implied it was smoother than any of the other 9mm subguns nor did I say it had no kick. What I said has virtually no recoil and from my frame of reference it doesn't. I also think that the integral suppressor has a role in my percieved recoil.

YMMV


Bomber
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:19:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
Well, I don't know where you got the 9mm has "Virtually no recoil", it's a blowback system and needs the heavy buffer....

No Expert




No offense "No Expert" but I am a very experienced shooter and I find the 9mm recoil to be minimal. That's my opinion and as such does not merit sarcasm. If you find it to have heavy recoil that would be your opinion and I would not respond to that with sarcasm.

Right now my intergrally suppressed 9mm has just a little bounce off target to it. I was wondering if folks have used a hydraulic buffer successfully. IOW, does it cycle and does the brass exhibit any signs of pressure.

If you're havinbg trouble with recoil as is, I suggest you take a look at your stance. Square up, cup shoulders and lean in a bit while staying balanced.

YMMV.

Bomber


Well, I offered no sarcasm in my reply.
and if you are running supressed, your beast is probably a bit different than a standard 16" 9mm AR. Which, when compared to a comparable .223 AR, would seem to have more recoil. Maybe I'm wrong, but the gas system of the .223 to me helps produce the weapon with lesser recoil. Now both mine are carbines with collapsing stocks, so I had to go with a heavier buffer, where a rifle stock buffer has been known to be used in a 9mm platform just fine... I wanted carbine so I needed a new (heavier ) buffer. I decided to go with the most recommended "best performer" for the heavier buffer as I plan to also get a .45 upper, and I use one buffer for all three calibers.

My other .223 AR ((rifle) does virtually have "no recoil" cause I have a gas adjustable block to limit the gas to just enough to work the action, a heavy foreend, and a mag-na-brake on the barrel (which gets even more gas than most cause less gas goes back to the action and goes to the brake instead) as well. When shooting, it has no muzzle flip, and very little push in the recoil. It's fun to shoot too!

AS for the MGI RRB, I have had no issue with it, in either .223 or 9mm on the same lower. No cycling issues even using wolf which others claim to be "less-powerful) ammo. have no idea what it would do for you in a supressed AR (are you shooting subsonic ammo as well?), but I am relatively sure that it would not do any harm to your setup.

No Expert
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:43:46 AM EDT

AS for the MGI RRB, I have had no issue with it, in either .223 or 9mm on the same lower. No cycling issues even using wolf which others claim to be "less-powerful) ammo. have no idea what it would do for you in a supressed AR (are you shooting subsonic ammo as well?), but I am relatively sure that it would not do any harm to your setup.



Thanks for the input. The whole subsonic thing is an open question. I purchased 1500 rnds of supposed subsonic ammo and yet I can hear a crack. My chrono was lost to an accident so I'm not able to see if it is in fact subsonic. It's 147 gr American Eagle and 147 gr Fiochi and my barrelis only 5".

Any thoughts?

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:11:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

AS for the MGI RRB, I have had no issue with it, in either .223 or 9mm on the same lower. No cycling issues even using wolf which others claim to be "less-powerful) ammo. have no idea what it would do for you in a supressed AR (are you shooting subsonic ammo as well?), but I am relatively sure that it would not do any harm to your setup.



Thanks for the input. The whole subsonic thing is an open question. I purchased 1500 rnds of supposed subsonic ammo and yet I can hear a crack. My chrono was lost to an accident so I'm not able to see if it is in fact subsonic. It's 147 gr American Eagle and 147 gr Fiochi and my barrelis only 5".

Any thoughts?

Bomber



Hmm, without a chrono to verify the subsonic vs a "regular" round in speed comparison, it'd be hard to tell other than by ear how much sound is supressed. Get a decibel (sound) meter and set it up a fixed distance and try the regular rounds then the supressed? But my concern was I thought subsonic rounds, in addition to being slower, had less recoil.... So, firing subsonic rounds may not be working the heavier buffer as much as full power rounds.

Get a notepad and borrow a chrono...and have an excuse to spend a day at the range I guess.

No Expert
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:16:31 AM EDT
I have an SPL meter and need to buy a new chrono. I guess I should start researching which one to get.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:16:09 AM EDT
I installed an Enidine in my carbine today and it cycles my 9mm upper/kit with and without suppressor perfectly. Seems to make the unit cycle a bit slower than before, but easier to hold the muzzle down doing mag bursts...

i like it..
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:53:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burnsome-:
I installed an Enidine in my carbine today and it cycles my 9mm upper/kit with and without suppressor perfectly. Seems to make the unit cycle a bit slower than before, but easier to hold the muzzle down doing mag bursts...

i like it..




Are you using a carbine length buffer tube/spring? Do youhave a sapcer installed to prevent over travel of the bolt?

Thanks.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:56:13 PM EDT

Are you using a carbine length buffer tube/spring? Do youhave a sapcer installed to prevent over travel of the bolt?

Thanks.

Bomber



yes, using a Magpul M93 carbine stock with standard carbine spring. No spacer installed....
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 9:43:37 AM EDT
I run a 11.5 inch Wilson, A.A.C. rate reducer. And a ramped bolt. K.N.S. pins. The 9m.m is WAY more wiggly than my 14.5 inch M4. But I'm not an avid shooter. LOL.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:13:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 5:15:44 PM EDT by watersniper]
I just tried my SBR lower with my new 9mm 7" barrel today. I have the Enidine carbine buffer. It ran like a champ! I had little/no blow back of gas/debris. The cases looked normal, although sooted more on one side. Could that be a bad sign?

I thought recoil control was fine, I stayed right on target. RAPID followup shots were possible. I tohught it was slightly more controllable than my 11.5" 5.56 upper. Maybe I was having so much fun I didn't notice... Who knows.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:49:40 PM EDT
I'm was using a standard Car-15 tube spring and buffer and the 9mm was hammering my trigger and hammer pins in the receiver so I'm switching to running a heavy buffer and I also got a AR-10 extra power spring that I'm adding to it and now it is really really stiff, I'm not sure it will even cycle with it that heavy. I'll have to give it a try. 762
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