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Posted: 2/6/2006 3:37:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 1:09:50 PM EDT by thebomber]
Some how, I'm not sure why, I became obsessed with building a 9mm AR. It's not like I needed a pistol caliber rifle as I have a UMP Clone that is pretty righteous.

Back to the 9mm. All I need is my TROS 5" 3 lug to come in and she's done. Probably a little ghey but I pieced it together as if it were done and snapped some shots. I figured you guys would also be interested in my lower.






So what do you think?

Bomber

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:42:32 PM EDT
I think you need or better have a RDIAS for that sweet toy of yours.....

Slug-O
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:48:12 PM EDT
Is that a VM upper?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:54:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 3:54:36 PM EDT by thebomber]

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Is that a VM upper?




Yea I wanted try something different. Bomber
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:16:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Is that a VM upper?




Yea I wanted try something different. Bomber



Looks sharp. Can't wait to hear the range report on this build!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Is that a VM upper?



What is a VM upper ? I really like this rifle. Makes me want one. What suppressor is yours ?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:50:13 PM EDT
Nice lower.......a 9mm marked RRA lower is definately in my near future!!!


Just out of curiosity, where and how much for the lower?


Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:56:50 PM EDT

What is a VM upper ? I really like this rifle. Makes me want one. What suppressor is yours ?



It doesn't use a charging handle like an AR but has a retracting pull on the side. You can charge the gun with your left hand while maintaining a cheek weld.

The suppressor is an SWR Trident.


Just out of curiosity, where and how much for the lower?



I bought it directly from RRA. I know they plan to offer them but I don't think they have shipped many to dealers yet. My guess is you should start to see them real soon. The MAP is the same as all of their other lowers (no premium).
Bomber


Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:56:27 PM EDT
Where do you get that upper?

What rail system are you using?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:10:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macros73:
Where do you get that upper?

What rail system are you using?




Thanks for the interest. Here are the specs:

Upper: VH Side Charger purchased from Ameetec
Lower: RRA 9mm marked purchased from RRA
Bolt: RRA from ADCO
Mag block: Hahn top loader
Barrel : 5 inch 3 lug from TROS (waiting delivery)
Suppressor: SWR Trident purchased from Title II Firearms
FF Tube: Carbine length Daniel Defense
VFG: Tango Down G&R Tatical
Grip: First Samco G 27

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:25:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 5:27:13 AM EDT by macros73]
Awesome. Thanks for the info.

What did the upper cost?

My 9mm SBR lower is approved, and my suppressor (Trinity) is about to start the Form 4 process. I've been waiting on the Trinity to really think about what to build, but one like yours may be ideal!

Just torn between 5.5 and 9.5 barrel lengths. I'd like to get the max reasonable performance out of the 9mm, which is making me lean towards 9.5". But 5" is nice and short. ;)
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:26:44 AM EDT
Nice! Looks a lot like mine. Eventually I would like to have a trident 9 to go with it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:59:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SNIPERm88:
Nice! Looks a lot like mine. Eventually I would like to have a trident 9 to go with it.




Yours was actually one of the inspirations for me. I really wanted to use a Samson rail because I like the monolithic look. Infortunately the Trident is too large in diameter to fit inside the rail to get the shorty "SD" look I was after. I do however think yours will be very cool with a Trinity on it. If your threads extend under the FF tube then you can get an SD if you desire since the adapter on the Trident is narrower than the body.


Bomber
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:06:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macros73:
Awesome. Thanks for the info.

What did the upper cost?

My 9mm SBR lower is approved, and my suppressor (Trinity) is about to start the Form 4 process. I've been waiting on the Trinity to really think about what to build, but one like yours may be ideal!

Just torn between 5.5 and 9.5 barrel lengths. I'd like to get the max reasonable performance out of the 9mm, which is making me lean towards 9.5". But 5" is nice and short. ;)




As far as the cost is concerned, I would contact (call) Ameetec directly. The are excellent to deal with. If you have a 9mm bolt already, it will have to have a very small slot milled in it so that the charging handle has a place to grab the bolt. The slot is about 3/8 by 1/8. If you don't have a bolt, they can sell you one and ask for the slot to be put in.

Since my gun is going to be suppressed 100% of the time, I chose the 5" barrel so that I can use readily available 147gr bullets as they are subsonic in a 5" barrel. The side benefit is a short barrel. The barrel and the Trident combination will be 11.5" . Either way you can't go wrong.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:47:09 PM EDT
Bomber: Have you had a chance to use your Trident suppressor? If so, what are your thoughts? I'm debating between one of them or a Trinity from Gemtech. I'd love to hear your feedback on what you have.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:59:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 3:59:57 PM EDT by hkusp]
Did RRA engrave your receiver or did you have that done locally ?

I was considering an HK94 clone; however, your 9mm AR rocks !!

I will now be purchasing the parts over time to duplicate your build.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:02:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp:
Did RRA engrave your receiver or did you have that done locally ?




rra offers 9mm lowers
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:03:02 PM EDT
sweet build
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:18:08 PM EDT
Neato!

Danny
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:30:23 PM EDT
Do you notice an awful lot of crap being blown back on you, due to the suppressor?

I'm going to SBR my 9mm AR, but I've heard so many horror-stories about suppressed blowback I've pretty much given up on that idea.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:26:04 PM EDT
Mike, the blowback is mostly through the ejection port, hence the gas deflector on 9mm's.

Bomber.. that looks awesome..

SOON I will have my 9mm upper and will join the ranks.

I have a pretty neat idea in my head, and I think it should look pretty sweet. OHH I CANT WAIT I CANT WAIT..


Damn you! The anxiety is back.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:44:52 PM EDT
Hey guys thanks for all of the comments. I haven't shot it yet . I still waiting on the barrel from TROS.

I purchased the Trident because "on paper" it has better suppression. that doesn't make it true I know. It can also be used with Handguns with the proper adapter. It is a little thicker than the trinity which limits the FF tubes you can use. I really wanted to use a Samson rail but the Trident doesn't fit. The Trinity does.

FWIW, RSilvers gave the Trident the Best 9mm Subgun suppressor in his annual Best of list. I would think, you can't go wrong with either can.


As far as blowback is concerned I think it's more an issue with the direct impingemtn type guns as some gas is purposely vented back towards the shooter.

Rock River is going to be offering 9mm marked lowers very soon/now. I was lucky enough to snag early. The early ones were earmarked for the 9mm rifles they sell. I'm told that they are now strarting to fill dealer orders. The price should be the same as an ordinary 5.56 marked lower.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:53:22 AM EDT
great looking build. Job well done congrats
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:03:32 AM EDT
Looks like you are a few months ahead of me. I am SBRing my Bushmaster carbon 9mm pistol and haveing another 9mm ar15 SBR custom built and trasfered. I just started my paper work this last month so I have to wait for a while longer to play. I also ordered the SWR trident with 3 lug mount. I am adding a 3 lug adapter to the bushmaster and the custom SBR will have the 3lug barrel on it. On the trident it rocks I heard it test fired at my class three deal before I ordered mine. It was the quietest can he had in 9mm. I also liked the Gemtech Raptor it was very close to the same sound but was alittle cheaper(with 3lug mount) but was also longer in size maybe a 1" or so. Both cans were very nice it was a hard choice the fact I could change the mounts out on the trident was what turned me that way.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:29:11 AM EDT
Does VH make a 5.56 version of that upper? I can't seem to find their website. I wonder if it would help reduce blowback into your face when shooting suppressed?

bp
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:40:47 AM EDT
Yes, they do make them for 5.56. I have no experience with the 5.56 ones, mine is in 9mm like Bombers. Here's a link to their site www.vmhytech.com/ although I've never found just the upper listed there. If you go to www.ameetecarms.com you can find the uppers.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 8:01:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By killer_angel_1863:
Yes, they do make them for 5.56. I have no experience with the 5.56 ones, mine is in 9mm like Bombers. Here's a link to their site www.vmhytech.com/ although I've never found just the upper listed there. If you go to www.ameetecarms.com you can find the uppers.




How about posting some pics of your gun?

Thanks!

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:54:57 AM EDT
Right now I'm still waiting on my barrel from Henry. He said that TROS shipped the barrels to him and he should receive them early/mid week. So hopefully I'll have my barrel late next week/early the week after. I'll post up some pics once I get it finished.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:13:49 PM EDT
OK so you're in the same boat I'm in. I'm waiting for my barrel from TROS. I think they are shipping them out Monday.


What length did you get?

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:48:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 4:51:15 PM EDT by MoNkEyTurbo]
VM-Hytech makes excellent parts. Take a look at my magwell adapter.

Fit and coloration are perfect. Just waiting on the upper!
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:02:38 PM EDT
What type of mag well adapter is that?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:37:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 8:38:09 AM EDT by MoNkEyTurbo]

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:
VM-Hytech makes excellent parts. Take a look at my magwell adapter.



Allows unmodified uzi mags to be used with a colt/rra 9mm system.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:37:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:
VM-Hytech makes excellent parts. Take a look at my magwell adapter.



Allows unmodified uzi mags to be used with a colt/rra 9mm system.



That's a great plus but does it use the stock mag release or bolt hold open?

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:02:37 AM EDT
Very nice bomber. I am in the same boat as you guys. Waiting on a 5" TROS barrel. I have thought about getting one somewhere else but I cant find anything with the same features.

I went with a shorter handguard and an hk 3 lug flash hider when I'm not using the Trinity.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:37:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TURRICAN:
Very nice bomber. I am in the same boat as you guys. Waiting on a 5" TROS barrel. I have thought about getting one somewhere else but I cant find anything with the same features.

I went with a shorter handguard and an hk 3 lug flash hider when I'm not using the Trinity.





I have an extra carbine length rail lying around that I may end up cutting down to a custom length that gives me a decent look with a flash hider or the Trident. I'd like to see pics of your set up once you get your barrel.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:15:32 PM EDT
Sorry to hijack but where can I get a 3 lug flash hider? I'm working on a similar project!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:18:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sp1shooter:
Sorry to hijack but where can I get a 3 lug flash hider? I'm working on a similar project!



here

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:36:43 PM EDT
It does not utilise the bolt hold open feature. This is a sacrifice I have made. Perhaps if I build another, I will use a differant mag block.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:19:03 AM EDT
Sweet! Harlan!!


Maybe we should start an ultra elite VA 9mm AR club?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:29:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By davidp14:
Sweet! Harlan!!


Maybe we should start an ultra elite VA 9mm AR club?



Got auto sear?

My build is very similar to thebomber's and SniperM88's.

It's coming together now, got several components on order.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:13:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By davidp14:
Sweet! Harlan!!


Maybe we should start an ultra elite VA 9mm AR club?



Got auto sear?




Fraid not. But I could just borrow yours.

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:15:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By sp1shooter:
Sorry to hijack but where can I get a 3 lug flash hider? I'm working on a similar project!



here

Bomber



That is an HK 3 lug flash hider. I prefer the older Gemtech 3 lug flash hider which is push/turn install/removal. The HK flash hider requires that you have access to the back of the flash hider which would hard to get to if your FF tube goes over the end of the barrel.

Below is a pic of mine.



Below is a pic of mine w/ a Gemtech MK9K.



Another pic w/ SWR QD3K and MGI "modular" lower.



Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:34:52 AM EDT
Oh crap I just found another way to spend money. I allready have a 9mm set up I just need to SBR the thing and givet title 2 a call to make it silent.. Question for the NFA guys I want a setup that is super quiet will the 9mm subsonic with gemtech be it? The only two weapons that I've heard that were quiet like I want were a MP5sd and a ruger 22rimfire setup. Also I have the rifle setup RRA lower and 9mm mid upper with a YHM handguard do you guys think that a grand will cover my costs to complete this? If not there will be a inrange built krink for sale in the EE soon.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:39:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By amphibian:

Originally Posted By thebomber:

Originally Posted By sp1shooter:
Sorry to hijack but where can I get a 3 lug flash hider? I'm working on a similar project!



here

Bomber



That is an HK 3 lug flash hider. I prefer the older Gemtech 3 lug flash hider which is push/turn install/removal. The HK flash hider requires that you have access to the back of the flash hider which would hard to get to if your FF tube goes over the end of the barrel.

Below is a pic of mine.

home.cfl.rr.com/c3stuff/m16/colt_curved.jpg

Below is a pic of mine w/ a Gemtech MK9K.

home.cfl.rr.com/c3stuff/m16/colt_mk9k_curved.jpg

Another pic w/ SWR QD3K and MGI "modular" lower.

www.c3junkie.com/m16/MGI/9mm.jpg





I prefer your style FH also....where can I find one?

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:25:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 5:26:17 PM EDT by hg112]
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:42:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 8:46:18 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
My build will have the following:

  • RRA 9mm Upper

  • TROS 9.25" Barrel

  • HK 3-lug flash suppressor

  • Daniel Defense 7.0

  • PRI Gas Buster {for it's robust construction only}

  • SAW Tungsten'd Full Auto Bolt

  • PRI Rail Flip-up front sight

  • MI Emergency Rear BUIS

  • Eotech 510

  • Colt SP1 RR

  • Hahn semi-dedicated mag block

  • Hogue grip

  • RRA 6-pos stock

  • Daniel Defense burnsed sling loop

  • CQB Solutions MOUT sling

  • SWR Trident9


The only things missing at this point are the Trident9, TROS barrel & RRA 9mm Upper.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:56:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
My build will have the following:

  • RRA 9mm Upper

  • TROS 9.25" Barrel

  • HK 3-lug flash suppressor

  • Daniel Defense 7.0

  • PRI Gas Buster {for it's robust construction only}

  • SAW Tungsten'd Full Auto Bolt

  • PRI Rail Flip-up front sight

  • MI Emergency Rear BUIS

  • Eotech 510

  • Colt SP1 RR

  • Hahn semi-dedicated mag block

  • Hogue grip

  • RRA 6-pos stock

  • Daniel Defense burnsed sling loop

  • CQB Solutions MOUT sling

  • SWR Trident9


The only things missing at this point are the Trident9, TROS barrel & RRA 9mm Upper.




Sounds awesome. By my calculations, your barrel/suppressor combo should extend past the receiver 15.75" which is still pretty damm short for a suppressed upper . Add your lower into the mix and it's an I hate you .

You have me second guessing my barrel length choice (5"). Do you think that the common ss loads will remain ss out of a 9" barrel? It's almost like I need 2 uppers, one suppressed and one to shot +P type loads.

Anyone know the typical length of a 9mm sub gun barrel? My UMP clone in 45 is 8.8" but then again it's a 45. Should I pick up a 9" just in case? I could always sell the 5" later.

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:14:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 4:37:54 AM EDT by amphibian]
I'm using a ~5" barrel that was made on a manual lathe by Dr. Dater of Gemtech. I went with this length since that is what they are using on their Talon uppers. But I wanted a 3 lug setup so I had this barrel made up for me. Back then, very short 3 lug Colt style barrels were not very common. I had inquired with Dater about the 5" barrel length and they had performed some testing to determine that length. I can't remember what exactly all of that was but I am very pleased.
It is plenty accurate and I don't have problems taking down the steel at the SMG matches either.

Regarding a 9" barrel, yes, you should still be subsonic as my UZI barrel is cut down to a little over 9" and it is still subsonic w/ my reloads as well as FNM and others I've tried.
I personally wouldn't like a 9" Colt barrel since it would be too long for my tastes on the Colt.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:08:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:
You have me second guessing my barrel length choice (5"). Do you think that the common ss loads will remain ss out of a 9" barrel? It's almost like I need 2 uppers, one suppressed and one to shot +P type loads.

Anyone know the typical length of a 9mm sub gun barrel? My UMP clone in 45 is 8.8" but then again it's a 45. Should I pick up a 9" just in case? I could always sell the 5" later.



I only went with 9.25" because I wanted to run supersonic ammo sometimes without having a super short handguard. So with the DD rail I'll have just enough poking out to slap the HK flash suppressor on and be good to go for NATO ammo.

I've got another upper with the 10" Colt barrel on it and it's still pretty handy, so the 9.25 shouldn't be too bad.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:28:09 AM EDT
Nice lookin builds everybody. I am very, very envious. I live in an anti class 3 county, so no giggle switches, SBR's or supressors. So a 9.25" barrel extends just far enough past a regular carbine length handguard for attachment of a flash hider? Would a thread-on flash hider need more/less or the same length? A VM uppered 9mm pistole seems to be in my future.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:30:47 AM EDT
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