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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:50:51 AM EDT
Hi,

im looking for an 22. like an Ciener system. And what do think about it? But in Germany we only get the ciener for a lot money. Do you know another system, but not an complete upper. It can be another company, ordering in the states is no problem.

I wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year.

Best wishes out of Germany

Achim
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:54:59 PM EDT
http://www.brownells.com
Is it possible for you do order the Ceiner direct from this place ?
I like the Ceiner very much and think it a very worthwhile add on to the AR platform
Good luck
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:20:44 AM EDT
I think Colt made one some time ago, I am not sure if they still do, but there should be some used ones around. ?? $$ ?? no idea on cost or availability. atleast not up here in Canada
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:18:26 AM EDT
I can order these parts from an american dealer who export gun parts. A lot of your companies doesn´t sell directly to Germany. But not really a problem........
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:00:24 PM EDT
Give Brownells a try.They are a huge dealer who supply many gunsmiths and stores with gun parts and tools. I would think they would export (whatever is legal) and they do stock the Ceiner unit.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:35:11 PM EDT
Ciener and DPMS both make drop-in kits. Both are about $130-140 US here. Brownell's has the Ciener. They have the DPMS uppers but I can't find the drop-in kit on their site. Several AR manufacturers like Bushmaster also sell the Ciener kit.

There's also the Army M-261, the Air Force M-261, and the Colt kits, but since they're not in production finding one someplace that can ship to you might be a problem.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:34:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By teamonetl:
I think Colt made one some time ago, I am not sure if they still do, but there should be some used ones around. ?? $$ ?? no idea on cost or availability. atleast not up here in Canada

Colt was almost as proud of their .22 adapter as they are of whole rifles! I don't know what Colt's original price was, but it was pretty well up there, and they didn't make them for a very long time; they're scarce. The price on one I saw at a recent gun show was something like $800!!!

I'd go with either a Ceiner or M261. Ceiner has high cap mags, but as far as I've seen on this forum the M261 has the edge in reliability (or at least set up issues).
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:57:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
I don't know what Colt's original price was, but it was pretty well up there, and they didn't make them for a very long time; they're scarce. The price on one I saw at a recent gun show was something like $800!!!


I've only ever seen one Colt kit. Saw it at a gun show here and they wanted $200 for it. It was in the original packaging, but I couldn't tell if it had been opened or not.


I'd go with either a Ceiner or M261. Ceiner has high cap mags, but as far as I've seen on this forum the M261 has the edge in reliability (or at least set up issues).

No one's really talked about the DPMS drop-in kit here, but their uppers have a pretty good rep for reliability so I would think their kits would work pretty well.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:44:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_L:
There's also the Army M-261, the Air Force M-261, and the Colt kits, but since they're not in production finding one someplace that can ship to you might be a problem.



The US Army .22LR conversion kit was designated the M261 kit, but I did not think the USAF .22LR conversion kit was also known as the M-261 kit?!?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:35:57 PM EDT
thanks,

but I never saw an Colt system in Europe. Maybe i should buy the Ciener, the system is cheap and it is just for plinkinghe~about 600 € the same as round about 680 to 720 $......
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:02:31 PM EDT
Check the equipment exchange, they come up fairly often. I picked up one for about $80. I put more .22LR through my AR than I do 5.56 these days ! Lots of fun and good for squirrels. Even though it's not a dedicated upper, casual shooting will keep the rounds in a one inch circle at 25 yards.

This is a bit dated, but it'll give you an idea of about what the going rate is. (If somebody is asking $800 .... tell them to step away from the crack pipe!)

I believe both ARmy and AirForce call theirs the M261, but one version doesn't have the bolt hold open on the last shot -- the version I bought doesn't. It's not that big a deal, I just have to count rounds so I don't get fooled.

from http://www.constitution.org/mil/wi/17th/ar%20info.htm


Be aware that each conversion unit manufacturer has essentially its own proprietary magazine design. This means, if at all possible, you should buy a few extra magazines at the time of your conversion unit purchase. In the long run, this will save you a lot of time and aggravation. For the most part, you will not find spare magazines at your local gun shop or show.

The Conversion Units and Vendors

There are currently 3 conversion units available on the market for the AR-15 rifle. They are chambered for .22LR only. What follows is a list of the brands and vendors.
1.

Colt Sporter .22LR Conversion Kit for AR-15 Rifles
Manufacturer: Colt’s Manufacturing Co., P.O. Box 1868, Hartford CT
203-236-6311
http://www.colt.com (website)

* Production: The kit and magazines (10 rd) are no longer in production by Colt, but new units are still occasionally available on the market. Check Shotgun News & Gun List for vendors.
* Unit Cost: $ 175.00 (Bob Swanson) kit comes with 1 magazine (as supplied from factory).
* Magazines: $ 20.00 (YTM Distributors), $ 28.00 (Bob Swanson)

Vendors:
1. Bob Swanson, Tucson AZ, Tel. 520-299-3454

* Comments: Good customer service. Bob did not have any more Colt kits for sale as of the beginning of 1998. But, he did have some of the kit’s magazines left for $28/pc.

2. YTM Distributors, Inc., 20464-F Chartwell Center Dr., Cornelius NC 28031. Tel. 704-895-8649.

* Comments: Has magazines for the Colt .22LR conversion unit for $20/pc.

2.

"Atchisson" Mk III .22LR Conversion Unit for AR-15

Manufacturer: Jonathan Arthur Ciener, Inc., 8700 Commerce Street, Cape Canaveral Fl 32920
407-868-2200 (phone)
407-868-2201 (fax)
http://www.22lrconversions.com (website)

* Production: Currently in production.
* Unit Costs: $ 139.00 w/10 rd Mag., $ 179.00 w/30 rd Mag.
* Magazines: $ 23.00 Spare 20 rd Mag, $ 59.00 Spare 30 rd Mag (3 for $149.00)

Vendor: Manufacturer direct.

3.

U.S. GI M261 AR15/M16 Rifle Conversion Kit (GI Issue) U.S. Air Force Conversion Units

Manufacturer: Saco Defense Industries, U.S. Government Contract

* Production: Status Unknown. Continued contract production is not believed to be ongoing as the US military is not actively utilizing the .22LR conversion units for training as originally envisioned.
* Unit Costs: $ 124.75 (SARCO, Inc.) w/3 10-round Magazines, U.S. Army Units (blowback only). $ 195.00 (SARCO, Inc.) w/1 10-round Magazine. U.S.A.F. Conversion Units, (combination gas/blowback functioning).
* Magazines: $ 11.95 (SARCO, Inc. Offered ONLY to purchasers of their kits), $ 25.00 (Bob Swanson)

Vendors:
1. Sarco, Inc., 323 Union St., PO Box 98, Stirling, NJ 07980
908-647-3800 (phone)
908-647-9413 (fax)
info@sarcoinc.com (e-mail)
http://www.sarcoinc.com (website)

* Comments: The quality of this vendor’s customer service has been widely disputed on the AR-15 list. Use of Credit Card or Certified Funds is suggested.

2. Bob Swanson, Tucson AZ, Tel. 520-299-3454

* Comments: Bob’s advertisement in Gun List of April 1998 read: AR-15 CONVERSION kit, .22LR,original US military, new with two 10rd magazines, $225.00. Additional magazines $25. This is probably, judging by the price, the USAF Conversion Unit. You should confirm this with the vendor. Bob Swanson gets good marks from people on the AR-15 list


Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:52:13 AM EDT
I believe the DPMS drop-in kit is the same as the Colt kit. It looks like Oly is using the M-261 kit for their uppers. I wonder if they're using surplus kits or making their own units? If they're making they're own they might come out with a drop-in kit like DPMS did.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:12:40 AM EDT
Hi Achim! Do you want a drop in or a complete .22LR upper? You might like to try the guys at Oberland Arms in Habach? They used to offer a product called the OA-22 which I think was one of their lowers mated to a DPMS upper. <www.oberlandarms.com>

If you want to stay in the Euro zone, Ciener are imported in the UK by Viking Arms <www.vikingarms.co.uk>
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:24:24 AM EDT
Thanks but I´m only interested in a Drop in. The guys from Oberland are too expensive, and I know a guy who bought the OA-22. He wouldn´t do it again. Oberland doesn´t sell and produce this upper anymore, who know´s why? But I called them around christmas. But thanks for the tip in UK. Maybe I´m going to look on their page.

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:56:35 AM EDT
Lowdi,

Take a look ok gunbroker.com..... there are lots of conversion kits there.....

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=42371312
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