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Posted: 12/8/2005 4:25:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 5:20:53 AM EDT by nturavrgcop]
This is a very basic overview of our recent addition of the Olympic Arms K40 carbine.

Our initial premise was to field the GL40 with our ASRT (Active Shooter Response Team) members. Previously, team members deployed with a Remington 1187 with both .00 and slug, along with their Glock 22. The addition of the OLY GL40, we felt, offered a platform that employed an existing approved round with an increase in velocity from the rifle barrel (I am waiting for the final numbers from chrono’ing the weapon). Operational perimeters established maximum engagement with the weapon at 50 yards, well within the effective capabilities of the round.

Various schools promote various rounds as being the “best” for knock down, least likely to over-penetrate, etc. Experience from our department’s teams have shown that even a .308 can serve effectively as an entry weapon when used effectively and a 9mm can penetrate an alarming number of materials, so this review won’t dwell on caliber issues.

All patrol officers, regardless of assignment complete familiarization with the department’s AR-15 variants, so control and transitional issues were projected to be minimal.

Delivery was an issue. The weapons (20 total) were ordered in April of 2005. They arrived the second week in November. Each weapon arrived in a green plastic case (we gave these to personnel for personal weapons) with no magazine. This was not an issue, as the department issues these in sufficient quantity. We selected the 11.5” with a permanently attached 5.5” flash suppressor which we may remove at a later date depending on T&E. The weapon employs some unique proprietary function controls, which I will discuss later in the review. Overall, the weapon was what I would rate an 85-90% in fit and finish. Not a RRA .223, but by far not the worst receiver I’ve ever seen.


Each weapon is equipped with a TDI Arms X6 rail system, an Eotech optic and officers are given the option of employing a Tango Down vertical grip. ASRT members carry a large volume of magazines which are vacuum packed in .50 caliber ammo cans in their vehicles. Each Pelican weapon case contains 6 Scherer 29 round magazines, and a Blackhawk shoulder/chest rig for quick deployment of the magazines.

Team members participated in a 5-day familiarization and qualification course. Issues initially developed in relation to the weapon’s controls. The unique requirements for the bolt lock function created some confusion. Of more concern was the magazine release function. While located generally in the same location as a standard AR platform, they are flush with the receiver. The release is more of a bar than a button, and in stress induced drills officers had difficulties in magazine transition. Firearms and defensive tactics instructors know that when stress is induced, fine motor skills decrease.

Another problem seemed that some of the magazines failed to engage in the weapon’s magazine well without first depressing the magazine release. We found approximately 15% of our Scherer magazines required modification (filing away some of the material near the magazine catch depression.

Positive observations included a minimal number of malfunctions. Most problems revolved around familiarization or magazine issues (as stated earlier). The weapon functioned flawlessly with Glock factory magazines from the Model 22. The weapon was reasonably accurate, and all participants were successful in their qualification rounds. Recoil is minimal, and everyone felt it was a forgiving platform to fire, especially in those aspects of the course involving rapid fire or follow-up shots.

Officer’s reviews were negative in regards to the weapon’s control surfaces and functions, and issues regarding the high capacity magazines but received excellent reviews in accuracy and reliability. These weapons received quite a beating, yet held up quite well. The Eotech received 100% positive evaluations from all participants. The X6; rail was impressive in it’s ease of installation, and it’s design and weight. I, and the other department armorers are waiting to give our final review based upon it’s ability to maintain it’s tight fit after being deployed for 1 year and the subsequent abuse it will take.

Suggestions to Olympic Arms would be if they hope to market these weapons to law enforcement, they will need to address the control issues. The bolt lock is just plain cumbersome. The magazine release can work, if they increase the useable surface and then extend it from the receiver. The instructor team (including myself) have some concerns that while our team members are becoming more proficient with the weapon's controls, they are developing habits that will make deployment of a standard AR15 varient problematic.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 7:19:18 PM EDT
Thanks for posting this. I am interested in getting one of these.


Nox
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 8:17:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 8:18:23 PM EDT by EdB]
THANK YOU - I am surprised that a LE agency is considering such a new weapon for
duty. I just took ownership of a Oly/Glock in 9 and I have the same mag problems:
1 out of 21 engaged the mag catch and I don't like / didn't know about the bolt catch
config but hopefully I'll be able to get it to run.

Edit: see my prelim review on another current thread
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:18:20 AM EDT
Some pictures; I appologize, as I'm using the old sony thats here in our armory....

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_f2089c9e.jpg
Mag Release

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_9f683efa.jpg
Bolt Catch close up with proprietary bar

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_5ca23630.jpg
Glock Magwell

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_657f46a3.jpg
Mag Release Close-up

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_25fefa3f.jpg
Receiver - General

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_404aa9c8.jpg
Overall shot

Hope these are informative. I will try to answer any questions regarding the weapon.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:39:57 AM EDT
Could the mag release bar be drilled and tapped for this


www.entreprise.com/Catalog/1911/SplitSecond/WT2MRB.htm

Thanks for the review
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:42:02 AM EDT
Tagged for later
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:44:08 AM EDT
Funny you mention that....

One of our armorers is a CNC guy. We are spitballing replacing the current mag release with one which will retain the same shape, but will be, for lack of a better work "dog legged" to bend at something near a 40 degree from the receiver.

Nothing started yet, just in the idea phase.....
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:54:38 AM EDT
N-cop:

What is the contraption in the pic of the case accessories below the rifle and next to the mags??
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 7:04:13 AM EDT
Initially, some of our SRT and ASRT members were issued select fire Glocks, and what you are referring to I believe is a detachable shoulder stock which was issued with these weapons.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 9:45:17 AM EDT
Thanks for the review. What type of ammo was used? Hollow points or FMJ.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 1:30:22 PM EDT
great report, thanks for the info
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:10:24 AM EDT
Thanks for the reply N-cop
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:30:18 AM EDT
Duty ammo (also used for final qualification)

Winchester XSUB40SW 40 caliber JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)


There were no FTF or misfires due to hollowpoint use.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:57:09 AM EDT
I also have a GL9 OLY and would like to have a mag release button installed on the flat magazine bar on my rifle. Entreprise Arms sells a mag button but the the bar obviously needs to be drilled for this to be mounted. Any suggestions who could do this work? Or can can I do it my self with a kit. I have no experience at all and have not even drilled for a scope mount or anything like it. Is this something for the local gun shop? My GL9 did not come with a specific OLY GL9 Manual so I do not even know how to take the bar out to modify it. Or does anybody have any ideas how to make the mag release larger or instal a button?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:30:52 PM EDT
nturavrgcop post your modified mag release bar when your armorer gets around to it. I'm looking to do the same on my rifle. Thanks for the detailed review. I think if OLY or whoever gets the Glock model AR's up to speed, it will be an asset to LE seeing how most of us carry them now.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:21:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 12:20:07 PM EDT by nturavrgcop]
I'm not sure what skill level you would need, but if you are not comfortable with metal and tools I'd defer to a machine shop.

If you look in the picture...

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/nturavrgcop/th_9f683efa.jpg
Bolt Catch close up with proprietary bar

you will notice two arrows. One points to a screw with a hex head. This must be removed prior to removal of the bar. You must also be cognizant of the fact that at least one of the tiny grey springs will shoot out. This is a real pain if you lose it on the grey carpeting you see in the background of the pics, so FYI
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:54:22 AM EDT
I'm trying to get a Manual from OLY now to give me a better idea on how the GL is put together but your info is helpful also. I'm sure soon as I get this bar modified OLY will come up with some new release bar to instal. Just my luck.... I'm gonna go the route with installing a mag button onto the bar for now.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:36:11 PM EDT
Any Chance I could get a good email to contact you??

V/R
Pinto
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 8:22:46 AM EDT
Does anyone know if the OD of the barrel is a standard size ? I was wondering if it would be possible to put a different front sight on there, maybe one with a folding front sight?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:25:58 AM EDT
I'll check on the dimensions...we are planning on SBR'ng one of the rifles to test for function issues. I'll see what I can find out.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:28:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 10:29:04 AM EDT by SSFeldjager]
Just out of curiosity, why did your agency choose the 40 caliber versus a 5.56mm/.223?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:36:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 11:40:53 AM EDT by nturavrgcop]
We deploy the AR platform (5.56) in three variants; CAR, 18" and there are 3 with 24" barrels.

One of or "gurus" wanted something in a pistol caliber. Our tactical team employs HKs. The powers that be liked the idea of using a pistol caliber carbine, one that would interchange with our sidearm (glock 22). The OLY was cheaper than an HK, and used the same mags as our sidearm.

Why use pistol calibers instead of rifle? The short answer is liaability, cost, PR and public opinion. Liability in that the .40 is already approved. Cost, the same reason. PR/Public Opinion is well, just that.

I have to be up front and say that when it comes to duty weapons, I don't really care. After working in LE for 20 yrs, I have found that just about any round will work fine 50 yrds and in. As long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger, thats all I want. My on-duty weapons are nothing to look at, are not "sexy" but constantly perform. Weapons I buy for my own collection are different
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:33:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nturavrgcop:
I'll check on the dimensions...we are planning on SBR'ng one of the rifles to test for function issues. I'll see what I can find out.


I would really apprieciate it
Thx
Shawn
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:20:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sat26:

Originally Posted By nturavrgcop:
I'll check on the dimensions...we are planning on SBR'ng one of the rifles to test for function issues. I'll see what I can find out.


I would really apprieciate it
Thx
Shawn



I am considering shortening my Oly .40 as well. Would love to know about any issues that arise from this but hadn't envisioned any due to the number of SBR 9mm and suppressed .40 SBRs out there already. I will mic my .40 bbl as well if I remind myself later tonight. Would still like to get in touch w/nturavrgcop. I am getting the impression it nturavrgdept either!

Semper Fi
Pinto
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:29:48 PM EDT
My Oly .40 miced out to 0.748" under the fsb. 0.725 forward of the FSB to muzzle. Bbl thickness at muzzle 0.17
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:39:35 PM EDT
so I was thinking of replacing the current front sight/gas block with one that has the integrated fold down front sight...like the Yankee Hill Machine one in.750 that should work Hmmm?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:23:10 PM EDT
"nturavrgcop" here is a link to some pics. I had the modification done to my OLY GL9 mag release bar. I used "u-baddog"'s suggestion and it worked out great. Thanks baddog.

(mag button link)

http://www.entreprise.com/Catalog/1911/SplitSecond/WT2MRB.htm


(picture link)

http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3598

I would post the pics on here but I cant figure out how to do it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:03:35 PM EDT
Wolfpack:

Thank you very much. I have to be honest, at first I really didn't think your initial suggestion was worth looking into. Drilling and attaching an aftermarket button extension didn't sound durable. Anything we issue has to be fairly indestructable.

However, I pulled up your website prior to the end of the day and was showing it to the others and we think you might be on to something.

Looks like we will be doing some mods here in the near future tor T&E
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:29:52 PM EDT
I'm glad I could help. I'm now looking at something for the bolt catch. I will post that when I find a solution. If anybody has any good ideas for the bolt catch let me know.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:55:25 PM EDT
I'm ordering parts before my rifle even gets here...now that I have the sights all sorted out, what size are the hanguards so I can order a rail
Thx
guys
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:30:53 AM EDT
I may be receiving one in a trade soon.
I was wondering about the following mod-
I have a surefire mid length quad rail handguard. Since there is no gas tube on the .40, could I knock out the taper pins from the FSB, slide it forward, and reattach it at the mid length FSB point?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:16:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:14:42 AM EDT by nturavrgcop]
The TDI Arms X6 rail system works fine. I cannot find an dimensional issues that would preclude the use of any standard rail system. I tried a few, and all fit with little or no problem.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:07:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sat26:
so I was thinking of replacing the current front sight/gas block with one that has the integrated fold down front sight...like the Yankee Hill Machine one in.750 that should work Hmmm?



Yup!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:13:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
I may be receiving one in a trade soon.
I was wondering about the following mod-
I have a surefire mid length quad rail handguard. Since there is no gas tube on the .40, could I knock out the taper pins from the FSB, slide it forward, and reattach it at the mid length FSB point?



Doesn't someone make a FSB that clamps w/hex screws?? Otherwise you may have to mill the bbl to accept oversize pins to use the same FSB forward, where the bbl dia is slightly less...see previous posts for measurements on mine...could be different on different versions I suppose...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:25:08 PM EDT
All the FSB's I've found are .750 or .9something. I would need one .725. guess I'll have to go Free Float tube. Maybe an Oly Firsh or a YHM lightweight. Anyone have a midlength or rifle length they want to trade for a Surefire midlength NIB?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:02:09 AM EDT
I don't think that I would trust the Schreer mags. IMHO a much better alternative would be to use some Taylor Freelance +8 floorplate extensions.

Also, I might give serious consideration to removing the last shot hold open altogether. Espeically if your guys were trainied on Hk long guns previously, this would be no problem.

Tsh77769
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:56:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 4:57:35 AM EDT by nturavrgcop]
Reference the Schere's. We have actually had no problems after the initial ones discovered on the range during familiarization. To be honest, the mags basically "told" you where the problem was by shaving off a small amount of material when inserted into the mag well. This was not with every mag, or with every gun, I'd say about 15%. The cautious use of a rat tail file fixed the problem and we haven't had any issues since

As far as the hold-open device, we begin to get into altering the function of the weapon itself. Our stance is if the weapon needs some small adjustments, no problem. If you have to begin altering the construction or function, find a new weapon.

I can't predict how these will work out. We may end up getting rid of them in a year, we may keep them for a relatively long time. Most of our firearms have about a 6-7 year lifespan, and then they are either destroyed or traded in towards new weapons.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:48:34 AM EDT
IM sent...

V/R
Pinto
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:03:44 AM EDT
Sorry guys, just realized my IM function was off. I've re-set it so.....
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:43:28 AM EDT
Does anyone have any experience with this weapon firing out of battery, or extraction/ejection problems? Love my LRM, it right now it goes "bang, crunch", not "bang, bang". It keeps eating brass....
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:19:15 PM EDT
The only problem I had was bump firing, (some might call that cool; user error though) but I have not had any problems with 2000+ rounds through it. It eats any ammo.. I only use factory glock mags. Now I did use Federal ballista-clean on steel and it does not have enough kick to lock the bolt to the rear when out of ammo.. Thats the ammo not the rifle. My ammo of choice is Federal +p+ and it works good, no problems.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:18:46 AM EDT
To date, we have had no real problems to speak of. The few issues we have had are user error/care.

Our weapons are still fairly new; the only weapon to have over 2000 + rounds through it is our instructor's rifle.

As with any of the AR varients, keep em clean and lubed and they function.

I can't say we've experienced an unintentional "bump" fire scenario. We've got a range date for the ASRT members in April, if anything pops up I'll be sure to post.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:36:20 AM EDT
Glad to hear no problems. Post some pics of your GL's in action if you can.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:18:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 3:18:40 PM EDT by u-baddog]

Originally Posted By wolfpak:
"nturavrgcop" here is a link to some pics. I had the modification done to my OLY GL9 mag release bar. I used "u-baddog"'s suggestion and it worked out great. Thanks baddog.

(mag button link)

http://www.entreprise.com/Catalog/1911/SplitSecond/WT2MRB.htm


(picture link)

http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3598

I would post the pics on here but I cant figure out how to do it.



Your welcome
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